US to Canada check list

[Shadrach]

Greetings folks,

I used the search function but came up short.  My wife and I are planning a quick trip to Toronto (Billy Bishop CYTZ) the second weekend in April.  Do any of you who cross the border frequently have a favorite resource for planning such a trip?  I want to ensure that everything goes well as it will be a short trip and any issues will eat into our short weekend.

Does Canpass make the trip significantly easier? The US feds already have my personal info and fingerprints several times over so I'm not concerned about being vetted by our friends to the north.

I tried to call the CA customs number listed for CYTZ but I cannot access the general question line because I am in the states.

I read a 5 year old AOPA article but would feel better with more updated information.

Any and all advice appreciated. 

[AlexLev]

Hey @Shadrach - that's very cool, you will be very close to me at KIAG, if you have time, let me know and I may come say hi at CYTZ.

Here's the checklist a buddy of mine made for me after my very first flight to Canada, a few years old but I don't think anything changed: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz0w6B5i4-Rda2FtZnEtTzI5Z0lJNkR6XzlqVGlXMmU0bjhB/view?usp=sharing

I cross the border pretty often, so feel free to let me know if you have any questions. Intimidating at first, but super easy once you do it once. For your return flight, KBUF has a customs office so they are much more lax on the time you land, whereas if you want to pass customs on your return flight at KIAG, you need to tell them your exact arrival time. I usually pass customs at IAG since it's my homefield, but KBUF may be easier if you are looking to pass customs immediately upon your return flight.

It's easier if you're IFR, file the ICAO flight plan, file your flight manifest via DTOPS, call 1888CANPASS at least 2 hours before landing with your ETA...that's pretty much it. Same for US, except the # you call to setup customs appointment will be dependent upon where you decide to land to pass customs. Let me know if you need any help finding those numbers.

CYTZ is pretty expensive, Stolport might be cheaper than Porter (but a bit harder to find and less services/lobby), but I can't remember as prices have changed a bit.

Edited March 21, 2019 by AlexLev

[mwilton1]

If you decide to go VFR, you still must file a flight plan to cross the border. I think Foreflight just released the ability to do this, so much easier now.

AlexLev is correct on all points. It is pretty easy to do and we love to see people visit our great country, especially with their Mooneys

[Shadrach]

22 minutes ago, AlexLev said:

Hey @Shadrach - that's very cool, you will be very close to me at KIAG, if you have time, let me know and I may come say hi at CYTZ.

Here's the checklist a buddy of mine made for me after my very first flight to Canada, a few years old but I don't think anything changed: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz0w6B5i4-Rda2FtZnEtTzI5Z0lJNkR6XzlqVGlXMmU0bjhB/view?usp=sharing

I cross the border pretty often, so feel free to let me know if you have any questions. Intimidating at first, but super easy once you do it once. For your return flight, KBUF has a customs office so they are much more lax on the time you land, whereas if you want to pass customs on your return flight at KIAG, you need to tell them your exact arrival time. I usually pass customs at IAG since it's my homefield, but KBUF may be easier if you are looking to pass customs immediately upon your return flight.

It's easier if you're IFR, file the ICAO flight plan, file your flight manifest via DTOPS, call 1888CANPASS at least 2 hours before landing with your ETA...that's pretty much it. Same for US, except the # you call to setup customs appointment will be dependent upon where you decide to land to pass customs. Let me know if you need any help finding those numbers.

CYTZ is pretty expensive, Stolport might be cheaper than Porter (but a bit harder to find and less services/lobby), but I can't remember as prices have changed a bit.

Thanks Alex, We will be arriving Friday and leaving Sunday late morning.  Not a lot of time on this trip.  I do get up your way from time to time. I have landed at 9G0 several times.  

Your list is pretty comprehensive.  I notice that it does not list "radio station license" for the aircraft.  The AOPA list I referred to shows this as a needed item.  I do have a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit issued in my name.  Do you have a "station license"?  The Canadians don't require it, but apparently US customs is tasked with verifying that you were not operating illegally in another country.

[AlexLev]

6 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Thanks Alex, We will be arriving Friday and leaving Sunday late morning.  Not a lot of time on this trip.  I do get up your way from time to time. I have landed at 9G0 several times.  

Your list is pretty comprehensive.  I notice that it does not list "radio station license" for the aircraft.  The AOPA list I referred to shows this as a needed item.  I do have a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit issued in my name.  Do you have a "station license"?  The Canadians don't require it, but apparently US customs is tasked with verifying that you were not operating illegally in another country.

I think the restricted radiotelephone operators permit is what you need, although I've never been asked for mine. Even the FCC code on AOPA says this: "Even though an individual license is not required, an aircraft station licensed by rule must be operated in accordance with all applicable operating requirements, procedures, and technical specifications found in this part." source: https://www.aopa.org/travel/international-travel/aircraft-radio-station-licenses-and-pilot-radio-operator-certificates

So I do not think you actually need a radio station license, but just the restricted radiotelephone operator permit (and once again, I've flown to Canada at least a dozen times and the Bahamas once and never have been asked for one).

[marcusku]

My bother lives in Toronto and I've contemplated flying in here as well.  How long does it take to get a restricted radiotelephone operator permit?

Is talking to Canadian ATC any different than the US?

[PaulM]

20 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Does Canpass make the trip significantly easier? The US feds already have my personal info and fingerprints several times over so I'm not concerned about being vetted by our friends to the north.

CANPASS shouldn't really be needed at CYTZ since it is an AOE/90 8:00am to midnight.    

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/offices-bureaux/812-eng.html

So, if arriving during the regular hours at an AOE/15 or better it isn't needed... If you are going to arrive off-hours (weekends many places) or at the AOE/CANPASS only airports, then you would want it.   Just look at the CFS in fltplan.com for the classification and hours.   

I have the radio station and operator licenses.. even though nobody ever asks for them.  and I have heard rumors that you should "NOT" tell them you have them unless they ask.  If they don't know what they are, it is then something to question.   If they ask as a "gotcha".. you have them.   (There was someone on beechtalk who had run into this). 

It is one of those weird things, every aircraft registration should also just be "the radio station license".. but the radiotelephone agreements says that the FCC needs to issue it, not the FAA.   Same thing with the pilots license.. it should be "pilot and radiotelephone" license.. but the international agreements don't seem to allow that solution. 

 

[AlexLev]

4 minutes ago, marcusku said:

My bother lives in Toronto and I've contemplated flying in here as well.  How long does it take to get a restricted radiotelephone operator permit?

Is talking to Canadian ATC any different than the US?

I think the process is instant and you get one you can print out immediately (and a mailed one later). Same with the customs decal sticker, although it takes a few weeks to process, you are legal once you make payment if you bring proof of payment with you. Just give the customs officers a heads up out of courtesy.

Canadian ATC isn't much different from US ATC, except you'll get a bill in the mail after.  There are also some regulation differences. I.E., I believe oxygen is required between 10-13k for pilots if above half hour: (see: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-96-433/page-119.html), vs above 12,500, but otherwise I haven't really noticed many changes.

[Shadrach]

56 minutes ago, marcusku said:

My bother lives in Toronto and I've contemplated flying in here as well.  How long does it take to get a restricted radiotelephone operator permit?

Is talking to Canadian ATC any different than the US?

As Alex said it’s done online. I don’t recall if it was immediate but it was pretty close to same day at the longest. 

Customs and Border Patrol is pretty backed (12 weeks) up on DTOPs decals but the told me via phone that my receipt with user ID number was good enough.

[Cyril Gibb]

A few notes:

no ATC differences between US and Canada unless you’re in the flight levels

customs sticker is only required for entry into US - US government requirement 

eAPIS is for exiting or arriving in US - US government requirement

ICAO flight plan required for cross-border flights

If you file a VFR flight plan in Canada, it is assumed you departed at that time.  That’s because of remote locations that wouldn’t have the ability to contact ATC to open.  Search and Rescue will be initiated based on that assumed time.  If you file a VFR flight plan DO NOT forget to close. Save yourself the aggravation (unless it’s a remote flight) and just ask for flight following.  Same as US.

Pattern entry is slightly different at uncontrolled airports.  Already discussed on MooneySpace.

[Ross Taylor]

IF you elect to get the radio station license, it's $170 and a pretty quick process.

[Guest]

If you don’t like the fees at CYTZ  you could try CYKF, no landing fees and free parking at the MSC. If space allows it may be indoors.

Clarence

[yvesg]

On 3/24/2019 at 10:33 AM, Cyril Gibb said:

A few notes:

no ATC differences between US and Canada unless you’re in the flight levels

customs sticker is only required for entry into US - US government requirement 

eAPIS is for exiting or arriving in US - US government requirement

ICAO flight plan required for cross-border flights

If you file a VFR flight plan in Canada, it is assumed you departed at that time.  That’s because of remote locations that wouldn’t have the ability to contact ATC to open.  Search and Rescue will be initiated based on that assumed time.  If you file a VFR flight plan DO NOT forget to close. Save yourself the aggravation (unless it’s a remote flight) and just ask for flight following.  Same as US.

Pattern entry is slightly different at uncontrolled airports.  Already discussed on MooneySpace.

Cyril is right about pattern entries differences. There are no 45 degrees entry here. About flight plan and itenerary,this text sums it up pretty well:

https://www.flyingstart.ca/FlightTraining/PSTAR/9As.htm

Yves

 

[Ned Gravel]

19 hours ago, Ross Taylor said:

IF you elect to get the radio station license, it's $170 and a pretty quick process.

Station radio licenses (aircraft installations) are required because of the agreement between our two nations.  However, in 14 years of crossing the border and flying in both nations, no one has ever asked me for it.

One difference is that mine costs me $36.00 Cdn (about $27.00 USD) per year

[Shadrach]

 We’ve elected to postpone this trip until later in the summer when we’ll hopefully we have a bit more time to spend in Toronto. We’ve elected to head to Asheville, NC for the weekend and enjoy some warmer weather. Sincere thank you to all who posted advice. It will be put to good use at a later date!

[neilpilot]

I didn't see this on the checklist Alex linked, and I assume this doesn't apply to most here.  Be aware that unless things have recently changed BasicMed does not substitute for a FAA medical certification in Canada.

[Shadrach]

32 minutes ago, neilpilot said:

I didn't see this on the checklist Alex linked, and I assume this doesn't apply to most here.  Be aware that unless things have recently changed BasicMed does not substitute for a FAA medical certification in Canada.

Does not apply to me at this time (just renewed medical in January) but good info to have in the thread!

 

[carusoam]

Some days crossing the boarder was easy...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

Hopefully we get back to those days again...

Toronto, and Montreal are really nice Cities... Quebec is next on the Carusoam list... so I have been told...

Best regards,

-a-

[Nippernaper]

I was just at Billy Bishop over New Years.  Pricey, but worth it, especially if you approach at dusk, along the shoreline with the city lights and CN tower to your right.  STOLport is cheaper, but they are in the middle of renovating their facilities, (at least they were in January).  Might be done by the time you go.  I wouldn't sweat the radio station license, but do be sure you phone ahead to alert customs both arriving into Canada and returning to the US.  Usually, on the Canadian end, they ask you to call when you land, then ask some simple questions, give you a code to write down, and welcome you to Canada, with no inspection or interview.  Not the case on returning to the US.

Tom