First and Second customer Mooney in for cowling mod.

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, cctsurf said:

That's really the trouble, we're trying to compare apples to oranges to bananas:  What oil do you use?  What mods have you done to your plane?  Powerflow?  Cowl Closure?  What method of measuring these temps are you using?  Original gauges or modern ones?  What model is your plane?  C, E, F, G...  

The plane David is working on now is a sister ship of mine. I think we are a few serial numbers apart. He has a similar setup as mine and his reported temps are similar. Hopefully bananas to bananas for us.

[N6758N]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

According to the installation manual, it is where the factory probe goes. Wonder if the one on the front of the case is the oil pressure one?

Yes, the one in the front of the case is for oil pressure. The reading is being taken before the oil cooler.

[Sabremech]

Update on Matt's F model cowling. Much closer to being completed. I made my own version of the oil cooler relocation mounting doublets in order to get at least a half an inch of clearance between the engine mount and the cooler. The STC doubler would not give any clearance with the cooler Matt has. 

David

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, Sabremech said:

Update on Matt's F model cowling. Much closer to being completed. I made my own version of the oil cooler relocation mounting doublets in order to get at least a half an inch of clearance between the engine mount and the cooler. The STC doubler would not give any clearance with the cooler Matt has. 

David

Thanks for the updated photos. I am a bit concerned that my oil relocation may end up being problematic like Matt's. Is the clearance issue unique to his plane? I may run into the same issue.

It also looks like you decided to keep the ram door. How about the third fixed cowl flap? It doesn't look like you kept it.

[Sabremech]

Hi Marauder,

On Matt's we're going to test to see if the ram air makes a difference or not with the air filter moved inside the cowling. If we find that it's ineffective, we'll remove it and I'll put on a new lower skin and possibly a second landing light. The third fixed cowl flap is also removed right now for testing and can easily be added back if we find it's needed for cooling. As for the oil cooler relocation issue, I'm not sure if it's unique to Matt's. I'd be interested in what part number cooler you have and I can compare it to see if you might have the issue. I remade the doublers to what I saw that Bob had on his. Instead of a one piece L shaped doubler, mine is now a two piece with the flange extending outboard which gives another 1/2 inch of clearance. I could make some doublers for yours if needed. 

Thanks,

David

[Raptor05121]

That looks so good.

[N601RX]

I added the LASAR oil cooler relocation kit a few years ago and my cooler was essentially touching the engine mount. I think I have pictures somewhere. In taking with Paul he told me this was a problem with certain coolers and he offered to send a blank doubler. Unfortunately it wasn't noticed until the matching hole was already cut in the baffle so we ending up having to make a new baffle also. 

[Sabremech]

6 hours ago, N601RX said:

I added the LASAR oil cooler relocation kit a few years ago and my cooler was essentially touching the engine mount. I think I have pictures somewhere. In taking with Paul he told me this was a problem with certain coolers and he offered to send a blank doubler. Unfortunately it wasn't noticed until the matching hole was already cut in the baffle so we ending up having to make a new baffle also. 

Interesting and frustrating that there's a known problem with the doubler and the STC hasn't been revised to correct the problem. 

Thanks.

[Marauder]

Interesting and frustrating that there's a known problem with the doubler and the STC hasn't been revised to correct the problem. 
Thanks.

David - model number of my cooler is 8432F.






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[DXB]

21 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

David - model number of my cooler is 8432F.






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Should there be fire sleeves on those oil hoses?  Sorry -  obnoxious photo nitpicking habit I acquired on Mooneyspace 

[Marauder]

Should there be fire sleeves on those oil hoses?  Sorry -  obnoxious photo nitpicking habit I acquired on Mooneyspace 

Well Clarence, in the 26 years I have owned my Mooney and through several oil line changes, no mechanic ever said “you need fire sleeves on dem der hoses”.


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[DXB]

31 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Well Clarence, in the 26 years I have owned my Mooney and through several oil line changes, no mechanic ever said “you need fire sleeves on dem der hoses”.
 

 

I got "no fire sleeve-shamed" by two different A&Ps in addition to folks here in my first year of ownership. Just trying to spread the love so I don't feel like a sucker for having paid to get them put on at my first annual .   Anyway the Sabremech cowl is a much more interesting topic, so back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

Well Clarence, in the 26 years I have owned my Mooney and through several oil line changes, no mechanic ever said “you need fire sleeves on dem der hoses”.


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While I don’t believe that the original hoses had a fire sleeve, it’s not a bad idea.

Clarence

[N601RX]

On 12/4/2017 at 5:37 PM, Sabremech said:

Interesting and frustrating that there's a known problem with the doubler and the STC hasn't been revised to correct the problem. 

Thanks.

Here is a picture where my oil cooler was hitting the engine mount. The bolts would go in, but it was touching the tubing.  There was just enough room to move it to the right a little, unfortunately at that point the hole had already been cut and a new baffle had to be made. Its only a problem with certain coolers.

[Marauder]

Here is a picture where my oil cooler was hitting the engine mount. The bolts would go in, but it was touching the tubing.  There was just enough room to move it to the right a little, unfortunately at that point the hole had already been cut and a new baffle had to be made. Its only a problem with certain coolers.

What’s the model number of your cooler? Wonder if different ones were used on our Mooneys.


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[Sabremech]

Hi Marauder,

Your cooler will hit the engine mount if you install the STC doubler as it comes in the kit. I installed my doubler on Matt’s airplane last night and we have about 3/4 inch clearance now. I’m thinking of doing my own STC for the cooler relocation now as it should be fairly simple and to correct the problem with the currently available STC. 

[Guitarmaster]

Wanted to give a quick update:

Dave worked on "Riley" last night and got much accomplished.  Namely getting the oil cooler installed and most of the baffling fitted.  There is little more to trim, but the end is in sight!

I am somewhat disappointed with the LASAR relocation kit in-as-much as it seems to be a "one-size-fits-all" approach.  Well, one size didn't fit my plane.  As you can see in the pictures, Dave got it worked out!  

The plane has been down for some three months now.  We ran into clearance issues around the original placement of the oil cooler.  The clearance issues fall under the, "it will work, but it's really tight."  Dave gave me the option and I made the command decision to move the oil cooler which delayed us a bit.  I would not change that decision.  It makes a much cleaner install!

Again, when I got into this project, I knew it would take a while, but I love experimenting and it has been great working with Dave!  The end is in sight (pending 337 approval).  

Weather permitting, flight testing will begin immediately upon completion and I should have solid numbers everyone.
 

[mike_elliott]

On 11/30/2017 at 11:37 AM, Marauder said:

Actually Bob, I think it would be good to see some real J numbers. The Js I have been in all had higher oil temps than mine. Also keep in mind our cowl flaps are a lot smaller on our planes than the Js. And I know that some of the J owners will adjust their cowl flaps to leave them trailing 1/2" or so during the summer. Maybe cylinder temp related, but could be oil temp as well.

I suspect the third fixed cowl on the F models was a compromise to address the smaller cowl flaps on our planes.

A lot of the J's cooling issues are the result of the rear baffling folding down and leaving quite a gap to the top cowl, usually about in the middle. The F' and E's fixed 3rd cowl flap was an afterthought to the problem of 10# in should equal 10# out. Putting on a cowl closure mod also fixes this without the need for the 3rd fixed flap.

 

[Guitarmaster]

Let's speak "C" for a second....

I have been flying Dave's "C" around for a bit now.  We have been trying some different cowl flap settings.  

When I first started flying it, the CHT's were about 390 with 70ish% (23/2400) power and about 50-75 ROP.  I can't get it to run LOP, but that's not unusual for a "C." 

Dave opened the cowl flaps a bit (not sure how much), but the result, with the same power setting and nearly identical atmospheric conditions, was about a 30 degree drop to the 365 range!

We are going to try different cowl openings to get the most effective cooling in both airplanes.  

Will keep everyone posted.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Guitarmaster said:

Let's speak "C" for a second....

I have been flying Dave's "C" around for a bit now.  We have been trying some different cowl flap settings.  

When I first started flying it, the CHT's were about 390 with 70ish% (23/2400) power and about 50-75 ROP.  I can't get it to run LOP, but that's not unusual for a "C." 

Dave opened the cowl flaps a bit (not sure how much), but the result, with the same power setting and nearly identical atmospheric conditions, was about a 30 degree drop to the 365 range!

We are going to try different cowl openings to get the most effective cooling in both airplanes.  

Will keep everyone posted.

For God's sake, give flap opening measurements! And which cowl closure he has . . . .

[Sabremech]

18 minutes ago, Hank said:

For God's sake, give flap opening measurements! And which cowl closure he has . . . .

Hi Hank,

Cowl flaps opened up 1 inch more than stock and cowling is my cowl mod.

Thanks,

David

[Guitarmaster]

3 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

Hi Hank,

Cowl flaps opened up 1 inch more than stock and cowling is my cowl mod.

Thanks,

David

I haven't been able to get up and see if there is any effect on TAS yet.  

[Mcstealth]

3 hours ago, Guitarmaster said:

Let's speak "C" for a second....

 

Would that be Middle C? Which clef are we in?

[Guitarmaster]

Would that be Middle C? Which clef are we in?

C3 or C2. Much more powerful!

Of course if you went to a 2 ship formation and one flew the first and the other flew the fifth then you would have a power chord formation!

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[Sabremech]

1 hour ago, Guitarmaster said:

I haven't been able to get up and see if there is any effect on TAS yet.  

Is this cowl flaps open or closed position? It should be the closed position now.