Does a Mooney Fit my mission Profile?

[Browncbr1]

I've flown in both a Cherokee 6 260 and 300.   Do not bother with the 260.  Especially in the summer...  Forget it.    If you get a 6, make sure it is a 300 and don't look back.   With 60k, you might be able to get a high time 300 that has been well cared for.  My friend picked one up with 1700 hours on the engine for 60k and it has a 430w and some other goodies, nice paint and leather inside.  He's over 2000 hours on the engine now and it runs perfectly, so he's going to keep it going.     

If I ever need more room than my F, I would get a 6-300...  

[thoma015]

All,

Thanks for all the advice. Looks like im going to have to make up my mind (or convince my wife) on weather to bring the dogs or not. If the dogs are a must bringI need a C182, Comanche, Cherokee 6 etc...

If I board the dogs then any Mooney F model and earlier would that falls within my budget will do!

-Hawk

Edited March 3, 2017 by thoma015
words are hard

[Hank]

I've never ridden inside a 6, but there was one where I used to live. He'd join us ftom time to time on lunch runs, and if he left before me, I would always pass him enroute (typically < 20 minutes each way), even when he didn't want me to. Oh, the mighty power of the C!  

On the other hand, he would take his wife and two college age daughters to the beach, girls in back, luggage in the middle. That would have been 2 or 3 trips for me . . . Airplane selection is all about your wants and needs.

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

No personal experience with either but the 260s I have seen have generally had higher useful loads that the 300s that came later. Sometimes as high as 1500 pounds. For this reason I always thought the 260 would be more desireable, but perhaps not. Regardless, I still think a Cherokee 6 would better serve the OP than a Mooney given his mission requirements and budget. 

That is the conundrum of the PA32. The 300 performs better, but empty weight is typically 120-200lbs heavier with same MGW.

[Browncbr1]

2 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

No personal experience with either but the 260s I have seen have generally had higher useful loads that the 300s that came later. Sometimes as high as 1500 pounds. For this reason I always thought the 260 would be more desireable, but perhaps not. Regardless, I still think a Cherokee 6 would better serve the OP than a Mooney given his mission requirements and budget. 

As an F owner, I have been very happy with my family of 4.  With 1036lbs useful, I've not run into a weight problem yet.  

One thing that you should know, if you get one with split rear seat backs, you can remove one.   Your child can be strapped in behind you and the dogs could be on the other side of the bench seat and luggage area...   you can leave the seat back at home..   There is probably not enough room on the floor board behind the front seats for a big dog, but removing a seat back would allow more usable cargo space.

One time, I took the right seat and both rear seat backs out and it was amazing how much cargo space I was able to use.. removable rear seat backs were a big selling point for me.. 

[thoma015]

As an F owner, I have been very happy with my family of 4.  With 1036lbs useful, I've not run into a weight problem yet.  
One thing that you should know, if you get one with split rear seat backs, you can remove one.   Your child can be strapped in behind you and the dogs could be on the other side of the bench seat and luggage area...   you can leave the seat back at home..   There is probably not enough room on the floor board behind the front seats for a big dog, but removing a seat back would allow more usable cargo space.
One time, I took the right seat and both rear seat backs out and it was amazing how much cargo space I was able to use.. removable rear seat backs were a big selling point for me.. 

Is it just the seat backs or can one entire rear seat be removed?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Browncbr1]

Just now, thoma015 said:

Is it just the seat backs or can one entire rear seat be removed?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

The seat backs can be removed independently.  After this, then bottom bench seat is more or less flush with the cargo floor.   If you remove the seat bottom, then there is a lot of exposure to uncomfortable and sharp pieces of metal and rivets..  just remove the seat back, then throw a blanket over it all and it becomes more or less level.

 

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, Browncbr1 said:

The seat backs can be removed independently.  After this, then bottom bench seat is more or less flush with the cargo floor.   If you remove the seat bottom, then there is a lot of exposure to uncomfortable and sharp pieces of metal and rivets..  just remove the seat back, then throw a blanket over it all and it becomes more or less level.

 

67 was a good year!  I've had two road bikes in the back of mine. I've also had a complete mounted wheel and tire (2 265s and 2 225s) set for my Porsche in the back. I often haft to get creative during loading, but it amazing what can be fit into these things with the seats folded or removed.

[gsxrpilot]

In my K, the seat back come off and the seat bottom cushions come out as well. That leaves a hole for the, now flat metal seat back, to fold down into. The backs of the seat frame are carpeted. This leaves a pretty seamless and flat baggage floor that now extends all the way to the front seats.  I usually travel around with only one of the seat backs installed. It's a pretty rare situation where I'd have four people in the plane.

[thoma015]

I have another noob questions...while looking on Controller.com when I look at the F model there is the normal M20F and Exec 21 version...what is the difference?

Also they have a really nice 67 with new paint for 50k

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/17917073/1967-mooney-m20f

[Bob_Belville]

16 minutes ago, thoma015 said:

I have another noob questions...while looking on Controller.com when I look at the F model there is the normal M20F and Exec 21 version...what is the difference?

Also they have a really nice 67 with new paint for 50k

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/17917073/1967-mooney-m20f

Mooney Marketing changed the names of the models over the years. The first name of the M20F was the Executive 21. (The C started out as the Mark 20 and the E as the Super 21.) There were tweaks to all the models over time but you mainly want to look for the C, E, F, J etc and the year.) IOW, all Fs had the same 200 hp IO360 and the same mid length body. Most of them have 3 windows per side though the very newest have only 2 - similar to the J that was based on the F bones. The one you reference has been modified with later model windows. And watch out for typos. That plane does not have an IO3600 engine or 1.25" thick w'shield.

[salty]

23 hours ago, Shadrach said:

What a depressing way to torch $60K. Souther AL could mean anywhere in the southern part of the state. How much additional driving on the arrival end? rental car? yuk! Similar to the few trips I've taken to St Simons GA:

It's a 715mile drive - Total time ~11.5 hours if you go straight through and there are no storms or traffic issues. 

Commercially it's a 1.2hr drive to KBWI + 10 mins to park + 20 mins for parking shuttle + 1hr of security and check in (minimum) + 2hrs and 20mins on a SWA flight to KJAX + 35mins for deplaning and baggage collection if checked (70lb dogs definitely get checked) + 15mins rental car counter (may require a shuttle or train or both a la KSFO) + 1hr and 25 mins to the beach house. Total time - 7hrs 17 mins

Via Mooney its 543NM so ~3hrs and 45mins with the Rental car or Uber I requested 3 miles out pulling on to the ramp to meet me at my plane + 10 mins to load and tie down + 10 minute drive to the beach house. Total time 4hrs and 5 mins

This exercise makes me painfully aware that attempting to do the type of travel we do without a Mooney would be an exercise in frustration.  We also like to head up North to Camden ME in th summer. Doing that commercially would leave us a 2hr rental car drive after arriving in Portland. I could do the same exercise with several other regular destinations and the math almost always works in favor of "Mooney Air" until the trip hits 1000NM.  I flew my wife to KPDK for a 1hr business meeting.  3.6 down and 3.4 back. It would have been a 12 to 14 hr day if not a long day and a wake up plus travel via the airlines.

Little airplanes can look almost practical if you value your time and sanity.

 

Until you factor in bad weather and mechanical failures away from home. 

[Shadrach]

On March 3, 2017 at 3:57 PM, salty said:

Until you factor in bad weather and mechanical failures away from home. 

I have been stranded away from home exactly once because of a failed generator. I had no supplemental navigation in the plane and NY center notified me they lost my xponder as the panel started to dim. I elected to land before it got dark rather remain airborne with no comm, no nav and no lights in the vicinity of some of the busiest airspace in the country.  Other than that I've never been stranded in 13 years of Mooney partnership.  I don't remember the last time I've scrubbed a departure for a mx failure, but I am sure it has happened.

The weather certainly can be an issue, but the tools available to pilots today are better than we've ever had.  Weather has surprised me, but it's a rarity.  

[Hank]

1 hour ago, salty said:

Until you factor in bad weather and mechanical failures away from home. 

That happens with the airlines, too. Most recently just a couple of weeks ago, several thousand flights were cancelled a day the national news networks were full of people sleeping in airports for several days waiting on the planes to get moving airports gain.

His 11-1/2 hours drive doesn't include mechanical breakdown, weather-induced stops (I sat one night for 3+ hours while the road was salted after an ice storm, then traffic crawled at 10 mph for several miles . . . ) or traffic jams. No additional delays are in any of the times shown for comparison, because those delays are highly variable and unpredictable. 

[thoma015]

That happens with the airlines, too. Most recently just a couple of weeks ago, several thousand flights were cancelled a day the national news networks were full of people sleeping in airports for several days waiting on the planes to get moving airports gain.
His 11-1/2 hours drive doesn't include mechanical breakdown, weather-induced stops (I sat one night for 3+ hours while the road was salted after an ice storm, then traffic crawled at 10 mph for several miles . . . ) or traffic jams. No additional delays are in any of the times shown for comparison, because those delays are highly variable and unpredictable. 

Let's not forget 12hrs with a baby and 2 dogs in the car would be a 2 day affair!

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[salty]

26 minutes ago, Hank said:

That happens with the airlines, too. Most recently just a couple of weeks ago, several thousand flights were cancelled a day the national news networks were full of people sleeping in airports for several days waiting on the planes to get moving airports gain.

His 11-1/2 hours drive doesn't include mechanical breakdown, weather-induced stops (I sat one night for 3+ hours while the road was salted after an ice storm, then traffic crawled at 10 mph for several miles . . . ) or traffic jams. No additional delays are in any of the times shown for comparison, because those delays are highly variable and unpredictable. 

I'm not IFR yet, so a long trip would be significantly more impacted by weather for me than for a commercial airline.

[mooney geek]

3 hours ago, thoma015 said:

I have another noob questions...while looking on Controller.com when I look at the F model there is the normal M20F and Exec 21 version...what is the difference?

Also they have a really nice 67 with new paint for 50k

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/17917073/1967-mooney-m20f

Here is another with the STEC 50 w/alt. Yep, its mine  I do have a few people interested, but it is still available until its sold. Just completed annual. 1100 useful load.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20F+EXEC+21&listing_id=2254825&s-type=aircraft

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, mooney geek said:

Here is another with the STEC 50 w/alt. Yep, its mine  I do have a few people interested, but it is still available until its sold. Just completed annual. 1100 useful load.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20F+EXEC+21&listing_id=2254825&s-type=aircraft

That's a really good looking F.  I believe a good autopilot is required equipment for a Mooney. And the STEC 50/alt is excellent. Add a WAAS GPS and it would be good to go.

[Browncbr1]

2 hours ago, mooney geek said:

Here is another with the STEC 50 w/alt. Yep, its mine  I do have a few people interested, but it is still available until its sold. Just completed annual. 1100 useful load.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20F+EXEC+21&listing_id=2254825&s-type=aircraft

This is one of those planes that I wish had been on the market when I bought mine.   If I were in the market, I would be looking at this one.