1524J

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

Naw, I think that's where Pug Piper was at when he took Al Mooney out for dinner back in the early years while his crew tore apart the bottom of Al's plane to figure out how his great landing gear worked.

 

 

This from the development of the Comanche explains the connection between Mooney and Piper:

In 1954, Bill Piper was looking for a design to compete with the Bonanza. The engineers at Piper were busy with other projects at the time, so Bill Piper asked his friend Al Mooney if Piper could buy the new Mooney MK-20 design that Mooney had not yet started producing. Al wouldn't sell the design, so Bill Piper asked Al Mooney to come up with a totally new design. Al submitted a design to Piper that was an all metal 4 place monocoque construction with retractable gear, a 180 HP Lycoming, and a stabilator in place of an elevator. The stabilator was a new design, an all flying horizontal tail.

The cabin size of Al Mooney's design was a bit small, so the engineers at Piper increased the cabin size and the first Prototype PA-24, N2024P, was created in 1956.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I am of the opinion that the above is total fiction, promulgated only recently by the Comanche crowd. My basis for this opinion is 35 years of Mooney ownership and obsessive reading.

Which part do you have difficulty with? That Al Mooney had a hand in the design of the Comanche or that Piper improved on it?It's equally hard for a Comanche guy to admit that Al Mooney had anything to do with designing the Comanche, but looking at the gear on the prototype it sure looks Mooneyish.

Clarence

[Mooneymite]

19 hours ago, M20Doc said:

This from the development of the Comanche explains the connection between Mooney and Piper:

In 1954, Bill Piper was looking for a design to compete with the Bonanza. The engineers at Piper were busy with other projects at the time, so Bill Piper asked his friend Al Mooney if Piper could buy the new Mooney MK-20 design that Mooney had not yet started producing. Al wouldn't sell the design, so Bill Piper asked Al Mooney to come up with a totally new design. Al submitted a design to Piper that was an all metal 4 place monocoque construction with retractable gear, a 180 HP Lycoming, and a stabilator in place of an elevator. The stabilator was a new design, an all flying horizontal tail.

The cabin size of Al Mooney's design was a bit small, so the engineers at Piper increased the cabin size and the first Prototype PA-24, N2024P, was created in 1956.

Obviously all fiction....Al would never design a backward tail like that Comanche!

Wait a minute....on second thought, maybe Al did:

 

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Which part do you have difficulty with? That Al Mooney had a hand in the design of the Comanche or that Piper improved on it?

Requiring more horsepower to go the same speed?  Doesn't sound like much of an "improvement" to me!

 

[Yooper Rocketman]

On 3/4/2016 at 7:53 PM, M20Doc said:

Rather, the story that I believe to be true is documented below.  I have heard this story told pretty much just as it is below since 1982 when we bought our first Mooney, which we still own.

http://www.avweb.com/news/usedacft/181563-1.html

I tried to copy and paste a Flying Magazine article by Peter Garrison from 1972 from their archives that tells pretty much the same version of events, but you can see how that turned out, unfortunately.  There are plenty of other historical references that are consistent with this version of events if you look for them.  

Piper may have copied and attempted to improve upon the M20, but there is no evidence that Al Mooney had a hand in the design of the Comanche besides, perhaps, being dumb enough to leave his new design in the possession of his "friend", Bill Piper.

That's the version I read 20 years ago when I first became a Mooney owner (and bought the book).  

Tom

 

[BDPetersen]

I always liked the Al Mooney-Comanche story in that the PA-24 is often referred to as the best plane Piper built. Piper designs tend to come from other sources. The high wing line from C.G. Taylor and the Cub, Apache/Aztec from the Twin Stinson prototype, Cherokee as I recall was a Fred Weich (Ercoupe designer)inspiration. I always thought the Cheyenne was too pretty to be a Piper, as well.