In the Market Now!!!!

[aerobat95]

Hey guys, well I finally was able to unload my Mustang and am now in the market for a Mooney.  I have two that I am currently interested in and was wondering if you guys knew of these and what your impressions were for them.

 

http://mooneypilots.com/planesales/Gore.html  this one is a F model

http://mooneypilots.com/planesales/Gagliardi.html this one is a E model

 

I spoke with the owner of the E model and it sounds pretty good.  Has a very new engine and the overhaul was done in Oct '08.  Annual was done in July.  IFR cert will need to be accomplished in Feb '11.  Paint was done in '97 and the interior is original.  No damage and all mx books.  No fuel leaks or staining underneath.  Has been hangared.  I called and left a message with the owner of the F model so hopefully I will hear something back today.  So there you have it....what are your thoughts??  If you guys know of anything else on the market that is good please let me know. 

 

Thanks

Ray

 

[piperpainter]

That is one beautifu F model... It has a everything you need for 10K more than the E.  The avionics alone are worth more in the F than in the E. Plus in the F you have a new interior  (worth another ) $8-12K  Big picture, don't settle till you talk to both owners. They both look good, but boy does it look like some TLC was given to the F! Goodluck and good choice on the Mooney!

[aerobat95]

Yea I was thinking that F is amazing almost to good to be true though.....

[Ned Gravel]

This is just me being arrogant.  E's are faster than F's.  Nuff said.

For these two, however, I would go with the F, for the same reasons articulated so far.  One caveat is that I think it was the 67 F that has the infamous twisted wing which will rob a few more knots from its speed.  To the good:  the panel is almost a 201 panel and it has serious engine management tools (VM-1000).

But here is the real reason I like the F over the E (in this case).

It still has the manual gear........  Way cool.

Hey!!!!  I'm a manual gear guy.....

[Comatose]

The E model is dreaming at his asking price. No interior shots? Suggests shotgun panel. No autopilot, just the wing leveller? When you start taking five hundred mile trips in the mooney you WILL want an autopilot. Don't get me wrong, it looks like an okay plane, but it is a $60,000 plane at most, not seventy.

The F, on the other hand, is massively drool-worthy.

[Barry]

Here's a nice "E". Avionics need a minor upgrade but the plane itself is impeccable!! I have seen it in person ... and it is beautiful.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/988194.html

[KSMooniac]

I'd chase after the F model!  It also has the 201 windshield, and maybe the 201 cowl as well.  The panel conversion with modern avionics is worth a lot of money as well with the pre-201 Mooneys.  Price seems fair pending a thorough PPI with a Mooney expert, and assuming it has been flying regularly since the overhaul. 

[aerobat95]

What are everyones thoughts on the twisted wing F's?

[GeorgePerry]

Personlly if I were going to spend that kind of money on an F, I'd pass and look for a decent J.  Avionics are nice, but they don't make you go any faster.

[aerobat95]

I guess my biggest hold up on that F is the twisted wing and the fact that it seems really too good to be true. 

[carusoam]

If you will be racing other similarly modified M20Fs, you may be slightly slower....

It seems to be just another factor in the decision making process.  It is still a Mooney.

A smooth ("clean wing"), and untwisted wing would be preferred by the people that want to be the fastest.  The Acclaim was built for the most seriously speed afflicted.

Typical Pre-J speed mods: 201 windshield, cowl closure, flap gap seals and tail root will also help.  The F listed above has a 201 style windshield, the E does not.

If you have all of the best from this list, you end up with something very close to a J, including the price you will pay. 

When you get the opportunity to test fly the aircraft or as part of PPI.  Fly the standard four course speed drill (3-way if you prefer).  Know how well this exact plane is flying before committing to it.

-a-

 

 

[Jeev]

Thal F is REAL nice but if you are interested in the E it is parked 2 rows down from my J at North Las Vegas (VGT).  I have met the owner and he is a nice stand up guy.  I also have my mechanic on the field (works on my J) who has a lot of Mooney experiance and is VERY fair and trustworthy.

Let me know if you want me to take actual pics or help you out in anyway.  Congrats and happy hunting!  I PM'd you with my cell.

[Jeev]

Quote: GeorgePerry

Personlly if I were going to spend that kind of money on an F, I'd pass and look for a decent J.  Avionics are nice, but they don't make you go any faster.

[Carl S]

If you are not going to race, and are not speed afflicted, then it probably doesn't matter much. You will still get where you are going, either way.

[M016576]

Quote: GeorgePerry

Personlly if I were going to spend that kind of money on an F, I'd pass and look for a decent J.  Avionics are nice, but they don't make you go any faster.

[rbridges]

Quote: GeorgePerry

Personlly if I were going to spend that kind of money on an F, I'd pass and look for a decent J.  Avionics are nice, but they don't make you go any faster.

[aerobat95]

another one on the market is this one

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20F/1970-MOONEY-M20F/1175528.htm?dlr=1

This one looks pretty good.  Light on the avionics.  I would have to add intercom, a 430w, and I would want a new transponder maybe a 387.  That would add 17-20k to the price.  As far as the J's go......looks like they will be out of my price range.  I am looking to spend no more than 80K total. 

 

 

[aerobat95]

One other thing on this one...it has 550 hours and the overhaul was done in 1997??  is that ok?  less than 50 hours per year sounds like it sat a lot.

[GeorgePerry]

The short answer is...It depends...Climate, use of a product like Camguard, and periodicity of use etc will all have an affect on how long an engine will go.  Calander time since last overhaul is only an issue becuase of corrosion.  If the engine has good compression, isn't making metal and has an oil analysis that shows nothing abnormal, it will most likely be fine.

One of the most important factors to consider when looking at an overhaul is who did the work.  There are several very well know, reputable shops that do great work year in and year out.  Your average field overhaul done by the local A&P might be fine, but in general that type of overhaul isn't perfered when it comes to resale value.

Hope this helps

[FlyDave]

When I bought my Cherokee it hadn't flown more than about 35 hours in 3 years. I averaged about 125 hours per year in the 5 years I owned her and the compressions at the 2009 annual (1,000 SMOH) were 79, 79, 78, 79. I diligently changed the oil every 35 hours and didn't defer maintenance. I was very happy with the performance of that engine.

But I agree with George - It depends on a number of factors (and in the end a little luck!!).

[KSMooniac]

You'll have to depend on luck for any Lycoming engine that has been sitting for an extended period of time.  That is why it is critical to look at the logbooks and tach times for each annual over the years.  Then factor in climate/storage situation.  If you price a plane as a 500 SMOH but it has internal corrosion and then eats a cam a year later then you just blew ~1500 hours worth of engine "value" on the purchase price. 

I'd rather have the twisted-wing F over the '70 model due to better cosmetics, 201 W/S, manual gear, and thoroughly modernized panel.  If it checks out, it is likely a turn-key plane with little need for upgrade money.  I'm not sure how much speed is sacrificed for the twisted wing, but it is worth a look and  test flight.  The variations from Mooney to Mooney might even mask the effect of the twisted wing...

[aerobat95]

I am starting to lean towrds that 67F model.  I found a review of one on MAPA and it shows that the cruise differences are very small between the E and F and with the mods done on this one it just might be the best bang for the buck.  I was told it has a powerflow exhaust system, 201 windshield, and the cowl enclosure.  Not sure though I still think it seems to good to be true.....

[rbridges]

Quote: aerobat95

I am starting to lean towrds that 67F model.  I found a review of one on MAPA and it shows that the cruise differences are very small between the E and F and with the mods done on this one it just might be the best bang for the buck.  I was told it has a powerflow exhaust system, 201 windshield, and the cowl enclosure.  Not sure though I still think it seems to good to be true.....

[Carl S]

Quote: aerobat95

  Not sure though I still think it seems to good to be true.....

[Comatose]

As far as "too good to be true," one of the things about the vintage mooney market is each model tops out, price-wise.

For example, If you take a $60,000 C model and drop $30,000 on a full glass panel, you end up with... a $60,000 C model. Because that's as high as C valuations go. If someone was willing to pay 70 they'd be looking at nice Fs or low end Js. It is easy to overimprove the old airframes.