Guest Mike261 Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Has anyone looked into this yet? I have been watching the website for a while and it appears the purse strings have been loosened and the money is flowing now. i Just received a primer on the application process on the phone, no liens and anything in the panel can be financed. 3 or 5 year notes unsecured. they are advertising some jump start bundles with lynx ADS B and aspen displays as some type of partnership deal, but the rep told me the vast majority of the money is going to Garmin stuff. Anyone looked at this? Anyone used it? http://nextgenfund.com/jumpstart/ Mike N2146X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR75 Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 7.1+% rate ... not sure what the benefit is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 7.1+% rate ... not sure what the benefit is I love how that fact is displayed in small font. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Yes, hard to understand how someone thinks loaning money at this rate is "helping" the industry. I can do better than that with the local bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike261 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 wow, talk about hijacking a thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 How about a reverse mortgage on your plane and you pay nothing. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Mike, You can always follow the money. When it comes to finance, they aren't going to care what you are buying. They want to know that you will pay for it. The higher the interest rate, the happier they will be. Are you familiar with NexaCapital? (Do you work for them or have financial interest?) Interest rates are at an all time low and will stay low for some time. The Federal reserve is expected to start coming off the 0% overnight lending rate later this fall. The finance world thinks it will go up to 0.25 % and stay there for a bit longer. The FR is data dependent. They are keeping one eye on inflation and the other eye on unemployment. Fortunately unemployment has gone down to 6%, and has stayed there for a few months. Inflation has not arrived yet. The 7.5 % interest is pretty high. You can probably do better at a bank. Their advertisement comes across like they are offering free money. They're not. What choices do you have? If you want new electronics and have no money, see who else is going to write that loan. I am not a financial professional, but I enjoy it like watching sports... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR75 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 My scinical view of ADS-B and nextgen: aDS-B was naively pushed by AOPA as the next great thing full of benefits to GA pilots The reality is that it benefits the airlines first and foremost . But AOPA seem to think that we will all be flying light jets at some point. Now they are saying that the cost of equipment is too high compared to the value of the planes we fly . ( obviously not light jets) We still need a transponder/altimeter check every 2 years. Despite the very precise WAAS position required for ADS-B. Why ? So that the jets / airlines can see us precisely on their TCAS. Benefits for GA ? Weather and traffic on board. Good stuff. Looks sexy in a panel . But how many GA flights involved flights longer than an hour where a ground briefing becomes obsolete and need update. Traffic ? Most incidents happen in the pattern ... Not sure ADS-B will help much . now this loan thing: not sure what it means ... No lien required ... Does that mean I can just take that loan and not pay ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druidjaidan Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 wow, talk about hijacking a thread. Hijacking a thread? What did you expect? You linked to a site that's trying it's best to exploit SEO keywords for search placement while pretending to be "official" source while hiding that it's just some business trying to make a buck on people that need loans and don't know any better. They are writing loans for a higher APR than my credit card while purporting to want to "help GA". And you're talking about "purse strings have been loosened and the money is flowing" like they are doing people a favor by loaning them money at 7.5%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 The reality is that it benefits the airlines first and foremost . Actually it suppose to benefit ATC, allow more automation. We still need a transponder/altimeter check every 2 years. Despite the very precise WAAS position required for ADS-B. Why ? . Because electronics fail, unless you want them to mandate a 2nd WAAS GPS. Benefits for GA ? Weather and traffic on board. Good stuff. Looks sexy in a panel . But how many GA flights involved flights longer than an hour where a ground briefing becomes obsolete and need update. I would imagine a lot of them for owners of Mooneys, a Mooney is a cross country machine. Traffic ? Most incidents happen in the pattern ... Not sure ADS-B will help much . Depends on where you fly, here in south Florida, that are airports all down the coast, and lots of traffic especially on the beaches. Does that mean I can just take that loan and not pay ? No, it means is more like a credit card debt as oppose to a regular mortgage, car load, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I didn't see where a government subsidy is involved at all, although it should be for ADS-B equipping, but absolutely shouldn't be "administered" by a for profit LLC, nor the college roommate of a politician's wife, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike261 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Hijacking a thread? What did you expect? You linked to a site that's trying it's best to exploit SEO keywords for search placement while pretending to be "official" source while hiding that it's just some business trying to make a buck on people that need loans and don't know any better. They are writing loans for a higher APR than my credit card while purporting to want to "help GA". And you're talking about "purse strings have been loosened and the money is flowing" like they are doing people a favor by loaning them money at 7.5%. It was said tongue in cheek, hence the emoticon. I didn't take note of the fine print disclaimer at the bottom of the page, got three terse comments...shot out a snarky reply. I should have drilled down into the site more, i just pasted it in...did not know it was not the official site. The purse strings reference was to congress or the FAA not to the purveyors of the linked site, i don't know who has been holding up the release of the funds, but it was set aside some time ago to encourage aircraft owners to make the upgrade. obviously one would assume by default the attraction would be lower rates than available elsewhere. I had talked on the phone to some guy in DC, not sure if he was related to the site i linked, he seemed like G-man and didn't volunteer info on rates, I didn't ask. the information he had was that the fund allowed you to replace anything in the panel, 3 or 5 years on the loan, 10K minimum and no liens on the airframe. One would think that there would be limits to what a third party could charge if they were actually using the money from this fund. maybe that is the case and the link is legit and the limits are pretty high. maybe not. maybe the purse strings haven't been loosened yet and they are not using the actual Next Gen set aside. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike261 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I went back and drilled through the site. It appears to me that it is the "official" avenue to access the money. it also appears its owned by a private capital firm and the avionics manufacturers in some convoluted partnership. Disappointing, There doesn't look like there is going to be any benefit of low interest rates. Mike EDIT: dig deep enough...its still 100 percent private money. FAA has not released the money to the fund yet. if these are the actual people who are going to handle the dissemination of this money they are using that fact to gouge before the actual fund becomes available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Back in line with Mike261’s original question... For some perspective... Has anyone taken a loan to update their Mooney? What were the updates you sought? Paint, engine OH, instruments? Where did you get the loan? Bank, credit union, bank of dad? What kind of interest rates did you see? I upgraded my C with new paint, a pair of extra cylinders, and a whole new IP, some space in the back for the kids, the new data plate says M20R on it. The bank loan was around 4% over 15 years... I am neither pro or anti getting a loan for A/C updates... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR75 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 ATC mostly benefits the airlines WAAS is not supposed to fail. You can take away all other nav if you have WAAS. Transponder is being kept so that TCAS can work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Mike261, I can't fathom 'fat cat aircraft owners' being given a benefit of free or low cost anything. The last time the FAA mandated transponder upgrades was in the 90s for Mode C. Same thing, different day. A/C owners got to pay for the new equipment in the plane. The government seems to pay for things that are really cool, like GPS satellites and ADSB weather in the cockpit. But they don't seem to pay for the box that goes in the plane. If you can point to the source of information where a usable loan or discount could possibly happen, 2020 is still coming. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 ATC mostly benefits the airlines WAAS is not supposed to fail. You can take away all other nav if you have WAAS. Transponder is being kept so that TCAS can work. Not if you fly cross country, especially IFR. WAAS insures integrity and availability of the GPS signal, not that your GPS navigator doesn't fail. I can't imagine flying IFR without a secondary way of navigating, no way do I want my life depending on 1 electronic box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike261 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Mike261, I can't fathom 'fat cat aircraft owners' being given a benefit of free or low cost anything. The last time the FAA mandated transponder upgrades was in the 90s for Mode C. Same thing, different day. A/C owners got to pay for the new equipment in the plane. The government seems to pay for things that are really cool, like GPS satellites and ADSB weather in the cockpit. But they don't seem to pay for the box that goes in the plane. If you can point to the source of information where a usable loan or discount could possibly happen, 2020 is still coming. Best regards, -a- I dont really have a source to go to... just what ive picked up from avweb and other places. Ive been going with the naive assumption that the money uncle sam set aside for the mandated upgrades would be cheaper and easier to attain than through normal sources. It looks like it is another proverbial carrot, just like the ADS B in has been called. Same M.O. from top to bottom on this one. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 " Congress enacted this program by authorizing federal loan guarantees for NextGen aircraft equipage in Section 221 of the Federal Aviation Administration Reauthorization Act of 2012. The NextGen GA Fund will initially bring approximately $550 million of financing capital, eventually supporting some $1.3 billion in recurring financings, to the general aviation sector over the coming years. The NextGen GA Fund estimates that this will enable the retrofit of tens of thousands of general aviation aircraft. The NextGen GA Fund is awaiting FAA approval of its application for federal loan guarantees." Bussinesswire.com emphasis mine, TomK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike261 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 " Congress enacted this program by authorizing federal loan guarantees for NextGen aircraft equipage in Section 221 of the Federal Aviation Administration Reauthorization Act of 2012. The NextGen GA Fund will initially bring approximately $550 million of financing capital, eventually supporting some $1.3 billion in recurring financings, to the general aviation sector over the coming years. The NextGen GA Fund estimates that this will enable the retrofit of tens of thousands of general aviation aircraft. The NextGen GA Fund is awaiting FAA approval of its application for federal loan guarantees." Bussinesswire.com emphasis mine, TomK AHH... there you have it. no help there. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 They are offering a gaurantee... Not a discount? Not a loan? Imagine the Obama phones for fat cat pilots program. Sounds a whole lot better when you skip most of the detail. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike261 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Sure does...I was looking for an education on this thing, and I got it. Up to this point i had been concerned with the requirements to meet the regulation and such. not the inner workings of the thing. I should have known we fatcat pilots wouldn't be considered. The "fatcat" avionics companies however appear have a sweet deal here. If I were to bet, my bet would be they lobbied for loan guarantees under the auspices of the deadline. I don't know the avionics manufacturers stance on the deadline, but one can guess that its an advantage given the loan guarantees. They can dish out money at 7 percent for the next 4 years with no fear of defaults and sell a ton of overpriced equipment. Private aircraft owners are lower than whale $hit in this food chain. With the exception of the satellites (which the u.s. taxper paid for ) we are footing the bill for the shift from radar and land based nav aids, to crowd sourcing. Some say its all for the benefit of the airlines. I've seen this model before. more than 10 years ago many municipalities in my state decided to eliminate the old fire alarm reporting systems that had a cable snaking through town and connected to the fire alarm system in all the buildings. Granted the system was antiquated, and very expensive to maintain. motors and switches in effect sending morse code to a bell at the dispatch center. Deadlines were set to change over to a radio based system, and the hard wired system was abandoned at the deadline and magically all the expense related to maintaining the cable backbone and master boxes was eliminated. the cost of the individual transmitters was of course on the building owner. The towns installed a receiver at the dispatch center... along with this came new inspections and fees. an annual fee to have your system connected and "monitored" and an annual inspection and test of the transmitter added to the fire extinguisher inspection. there was also an initial connection fee to get your box number and test it...and lets not forget a fire alarm permit, and an electrical permit. the conversions were not cheap, the transmitters for a standard system were 8 grand plus the cost to install them. customers screamed, but they had no choice. It was great for the towns...shift the maintenance burden to the building owners and generate new revenue with the connection fees and inspections. this is quite close to the ADS b model, and it looks like the new normal. now i'm guilty of hijacking the thread. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike261 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 forgot to add...seems like it will be really easy to go to a fee based system with ADS-B as well...N-Numbers tracked and data logged everywhere they go. "please enter a credit card number at the FAA pay site." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishboneash Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Traffic ? Most incidents happen in the pattern ... Not sure ADS-B will help much . I can't count the number of times ATC has missed traffic calls (whether IFR or VFR) and my guess is I see about 20-30% of potential conflicts visually even with active scanning. ADS-B has certainly been very helpful in the SF Bay area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 forgot to add...seems like it will be really easy to go to a fee based system with ADS-B as well...N-Numbers tracked and data logged everywhere they go. "please enter a credit card number at the FAA pay site." Not necessary, just add a tax,fee to the medical. And another to registration (FYI, they did this to boats last year). I be more worried about local jurisdictions trying to charge landing fees, but as soon as the word got out, that would put an end to that unless they were looking for a reason to close the airport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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