jrwilson Posted May 10, 2015 Report Posted May 10, 2015 Wondering if anyone has a file for a 20k with intercooler checklist. I bought the sure check model but the numbers are for a stock model.
Parker_Woodruff Posted May 10, 2015 Report Posted May 10, 2015 There isn't really any difference how you fly the plane with or without the intercooler. You'll just notice cooler temps
jrwilson Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Posted May 11, 2015 Hmm...other sources say fly it with 252 numbers and the intercooler company had lower numbers... I'll do some more research
Parker_Woodruff Posted May 11, 2015 Report Posted May 11, 2015 Hmm...other sources say fly it with 252 numbers and the intercooler company had lower numbers... I'll do some more research What numbers are we talking about?
jlunseth Posted May 11, 2015 Report Posted May 11, 2015 There is no need for a checklist for the intercooler. Nothing to check. I think most of us have found that the 252 numbers (for MP) are a little conservative and the stock numbers are of course too high. If you are looking for the table that allows you to determine what adjustment you need to make from the POH power settings, you can get that from Turboplus, they were very accommodating when I contacted them, although it has been five or six years now. Generally speaking, takeoff should be 36" MP, full rich, 2700 RPM's. Climb should be at that same setting to keep the CHT's cool. Turboplus published as part of their STC some new fuel settings to be used under SID97E when the A&P sets the fuel flow up. Most A&P's seem to just use the factory settings, with the result that the fuel flow is too low at 36". The POH wants the fuel flow at 22-24.5 at full power but that assumes 40" of MP, which is the stock setting, With the intercooler you will see full power at about 36, but if the stock fuel flow settings are used you won't see 22-24.5. Get the STC from Turboplus. I run LOP in the mid-teens or lower, fuel flow at 11.5 or a little less and MP at 34" or higher, RPM's 2450. That is at cruise, not climb. I try to keep the TIT just under 1600, and usually wind up with the fuel flow at around 11.2 or .3 to do that. I have not had success running at LOP up higher, the temps just get to high. I see lots of posts where people seem to think you can run the turbo all day at temps up around the redline but I just don't want to do that. For one thing, the 231 system is a good system, but it is not rock solid and the MP's and fuel flows will move around a little bit, so you set it at redline and the next thing you know you are over redline. For another thing, the higher temps seem to be hard on the exhaust, I am getting some scaling on mine. When I am up higher I run ROP and that means fuel flows in the range of 13.3 or higher, depending on MP. I see lots of guys saying they run at 75% power and 12 something for fuel flow, according to my 930 that is dead in the red box, you need a richer fuel flow than that. I am assuming all this is what you mean by checklist, as noted, there are no intercooler related checklist items to worry about. 1
jrwilson Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Posted May 11, 2015 Yes that was exactly what I meant, thank you. I just got the plane and will be conservative with the temps. My intercooler is a different brand, air systems I think, so I'll call them too.
jlunseth Posted May 11, 2015 Report Posted May 11, 2015 As I mentioned in my post, there are two things you should ask for if you don't have them in the documentation you got with your plane. They are the conversion table, for adjusting power settings from what is in the POH, and the STC, which should have the fuel flow settings that your A&P should use. 1
231LV Posted May 11, 2015 Report Posted May 11, 2015 I can't overemphasize the importance of getting the fuel flow right with an intercooler....22 to 24 gph is what you should see when running 37 mp...thats about as high as I can go without overboosting the engine....if the A&P doesn't know how to set this up or sets it according to stock numbers, your CHT's will be over 400 at 2500 feet...as to cruise with intercooler...simply reduces the boost from 40 to about 36 or 37 tops...running LOP, 10.5 gph at 17k ft...TIT around 1620 and hottest cylinder at 380...TAS of about 175 kts...pretty straight forward
jrwilson Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Posted May 11, 2015 What about on takeoff? Any changes to mixture setting for airflow systems intercooler?
jlunseth Posted May 15, 2015 Report Posted May 15, 2015 The mixture setting on takeoff and during the climb should be full forward. There are no changes to that for an intercooler that the pilot makes in the cockpit. As I said earlier, there are or should be special instructions that the A&P should use in setting up the fuel flows on the ground per SID 97E. As I recall, that is in the STC for the Turboplus so I am assuming that is where you would get the information from Airflow. But no - emphatically no - you do not under any circumstances ever lean the fuel flow back from full rich on takeoff. Remember, your turbo aircraft makes full pressure and full power on any airstrip in the US regardless of altitude. That includes Leadville. So you should not ever lean back from full fuel flow on takeoff, because you will always be making full power. If you do, you will see TIT's in the area of redline or exceeding redline very quickly. Leaning fuel flow on takeoff is for NA aircraft, not for turbo aircraft ever. I don't know any turbo pilots who do takeoff any other way. I do know some with 231's who will do a cruise climb which means a reduction of power to say 32" and leaning the fuel flow back also, but you must keep the CHT's cool. In my own experience, I never have found a cruise climb very useful unless you are just going up a few thousand to a low or mid-teen cruise. If you are going to do a long climb, say to the flight levels, leave the fuel flow full in and climb at 100% power. You need that 22-24.5 to keep the engine cool. 2
jlunseth Posted May 16, 2015 Report Posted May 16, 2015 Just for the record, I am not a "cruise climb" advocate, I am just saying I know some people who do it that way. I climb full power full RPM full fuel all the time to whatever altitude.
IndyTim Posted May 16, 2015 Report Posted May 16, 2015 Just for the record, I am not a "cruise climb" advocate, I am just saying I know some people who do it that way. I climb full power full RPM full fuel all the time to whatever altitude. I suspect I run mine unusualy light - I pull back from 39" to 35" about 2000 ft agl, and drop the rpms to 2550. I still run full rich for a while, might come back a scosch but watch my CHTs like a hawk. I want them at 380 or less. My TIT is never above 1525 or so. I've seen a number of places that full power is recommended all the way to cruise altitude, wonder if there is any downside to running the way I do? I also agree that running ROP, around 13.3-13.5gph is the only way to go above 17,000. Too hard to keep CHTs in range if LOP up high.
231GKY Posted May 22, 2015 Report Posted May 22, 2015 My 231 has TurboPlus intercooler, Merlyn automatic wastegate, and GAMIs. For TO, I use full rich and stop advancing throttle at about 34 inches. The turbo will spool up on the roll to about 36 or 37, and RPM will be about 2700. Fuel flow is about 24 gph. At 400 ft, power comes back to 31", prop 2500, mixture back to 15 gph yielding TIT of about 1400 and CHTs generally around 350, never approaching 380 with cowl flaps fully open. I climb that way to cruise altitude. Cruising at any altitude up to FL180, I keep power at 31, set RPM to 2200, lean to 40 LOP, and get fuel flow of about 8.8 - 9.0 gph. TIT is about 1530 and CHTs about 320. I use the 252 power chart and believe these numbers are about 65% power. I have had to occasionally use trailing cowl flaps to keep CHTs down at the higher altitudes. TAS generally ranges between 155 - 170 at 17,000. I don't fly in the flight levels since I don't have an O2 mask. Not the fastest way to fly but a very economical fuel burn, and last engine got 2300 TBO.
CaptRJM Posted June 8, 2015 Report Posted June 8, 2015 According to the folks a GAMI you get approximately 13.8 HP per GPH. 65% Power on a TSIO 360GB, LB, MB requires 9.9-10.0 GPH to make 136.5 HP. HP and GPH are directly related. Running LOP would yield somewhat less HP because you are running lower cylinder pressures ... that is why you have to run slightly higher MP. Remember, Continental does not recommend LOP operation above 65% Power ... which is where most people get themselves into trouble when running LOP and unable to achieve temps. I run 65% power LOP all the time on my TSIO 360LB with GAMIs, Merlyn and Turbo Plus. Fuel comes right in at 9.9-10.0 GPH. MP, depending on altitude and OAT, is typically 28.0-29.5" at 2500 RPM. CHTs run around 350 on cylinders 1,2,3,4 and 280-300 on 5,6. TIT is around 1525. TAS is typically 160-165 Kn.
carusoam Posted June 8, 2015 Report Posted June 8, 2015 Nice data collection RJM... Best regards, -a-
Zwaustin Posted August 22, 2015 Report Posted August 22, 2015 Jrwilson if you want me to email you a power setting list and 12 page POH supplement for an airflow systems intercooler let me know. Zach
jrwilson Posted August 23, 2015 Author Report Posted August 23, 2015 Jrwilson if you want me to email you a power setting list and 12 page POH supplement for an airflow systems intercooler let me know. Zach Yes please!
Zwaustin Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 Attached is the POH Supplement for my airflow systems intercooler. There is an additional cruise settings chart which is in the plane. Will upload it soon. Intercooler POH Supplement.pdf 1
Zwaustin Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Cruise power schedule attached. 2015-08-24 20-06-12.pdf 1
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