Crosswind landing technique

[MooneyBob]

One of the previous topics prompted me to ask this question. I am not afraid to admit that my Xwind landings are in general bad. I don't want to elaborate on the wind speed or gusty winds.

Can you simply describe what is working for you? How do you mentally prepare yourself for the flare and touch down? What did you help to improve your Xwind landings?

Thanks

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Here's what works for me:

Fly the approach in a crab.

Line up on the upwind side of centerline.

Fly your normal approach speeds; maybe add up to 5 knots if it's gusty.

Initiate your flare as low as possible, still in the crab. And then, quickly and simultaneously, lower the upwind wing and kick enough opposite rudder to point yourself straight down the runway. If you've flared low enough and you're not going too fast, the upwind main should touch down, followed in rapid succession by everything else.

If you're carrying enough excess energy to float, go around.

I recently posted a video on YouTube of a challenging xwind landing I did back in May. I'll send you the link if you'd like.

Don't get discouraged. It takes practice and eventually the muscle memory will come.

[Jeff H.]

15 landings during a 2 hour training flight in 27 kt cross winds helped tremendously. (I should be truthful and say 13 - pretty sure there were at least 2 go rounds.)  In addition, EYQ is 9/27 orientation. Every takeoff and landing is a cross wind experience.

 

With regard to what works for me, see below.  With all due deference and respect to those much more experienced, I wouldn't have responded except that straight wind landings are truly unusual and x-wind landings may be one of the only things that seem to be flowing well.

 

- Crab technique: Directional heading into the wind enough to maintain a straight approach to runway.

- Round out:  Maintain crab into the round out.

- Flare:  Maintain crab into initial flare, then yaw to begin directional correction.  Repeat mantra "Left rudder, right aileron" (or opposite maneuver, as needed to lower wing into the wind direction) 

 

Set down on the low wing gear first and then let the aircraft settle right on the center line.  Maintain aileron correction into the wind during roll-out.

 

For me it was the last aileron correction to lower the wing that took the longest to integrate into the process.  It's what will keep you on the center line.

 

Good luck.

[MooneyBob]

Here's what works for me:

Fly the approach in a crab.

Line up on the upwind side of centerline.

Fly your normal approach speeds; maybe add up to 5 knots if it's gusty.

Initiate your flare as low as possible, still in the crab. And then, quickly and simultaneously, lower the upwind wing and kick enough opposite rudder to point yourself straight down the runway. If you've flared low enough and you're not going too fast, the upwind main should touch down, followed in rapid succession by everything else.

If you're carrying enough excess energy to float, go around.

I recently posted a video on YouTube of a challenging xwind landing I did back in May. I'll send you the link if you'd like.

Don't get discouraged. It takes practice and eventually the muscle memory will come.

Thanks for the great points. We all know that but sometimes you just need that righ sentence to realize what you are missing.

Yes please, send or post the YouTube link. Thank you.

I think my biggest issue is being scared to get low enough. Since it is windy and gusty and plane is tossed around I am unconsciously afraid that I am going to slam the plane to the ground. I start my flare to high and then it is too hard to keep the wing low, rudder in, center line between the legs and control the sink rate.

I remember when I was practicing with my mooney instructor he kept reminding me on the final approach and before I started to flare to get as low as possible. And I have done some nice landings with 17knots component. It's all mental. I have to do more yoga.

[Hank]

I'm in the side slip camp. I crab around the pattern, and sometime on final will transition from crab to slip. Use aileron into the wind to get desired track (you're already doing that), but add rudder so that the nose points the same way instead of off to one side. This will require an aileron adjustment.

Normal speeds unless the wind is gusty, then add your normal gust factor. Make a normal flare, touching on the low wheel only, and maintain both aileron and rudder corrections until main #2 touches. You'll need to straighten rudder for the nose wheel, then steer and maintain aileron correction.

Don't forget when exiting the runway, if you turn so the wind is behind you, push forward on the yoke instead of your normal pull back, depending on wind strength.

[DS1980]

I would ask around and find a CFI who would show you both the crab and slip tehcniques and use what you feel most comfortable with. I use the slip method because I would like to know on approach if I have enough opposite rudder (usually the limiting factor in low wings) to complete a landing rather than in ground effect.

 

And don't worry about admitting that you are struggling with anything. We forget that properly flying airplanes is very difficult. I cannot think of a single time I had a perfect flight.

[smccray]

I generally crab on approach and then transition to a side slip in the flare.  Joe described it better than I could so I won't repeat/try.  If conditions are particularly gusty, or if I'm not feeling like I'm on my game, I may transition to a slip earlier just to get lined up on the runway and establish the right amount of upwind low wing and get the plane lined up with the center line.  I'm also likely to land with intermediate flaps rather than full flaps in gusty conditions and carrying a little extra speed.

 

Should go without saying but I'll say it even though I'm not the most qualified pilot here.  Remain coordinated until completing the base to final turn.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Here is the link to my YouTube video:

 

 

In this case I lined up on the centerline and you can see that I touched down downwind of it. Hence my advice to line up upwind of the centerline if you're crabbing.

 

Everyone here has given good advice. Both crabs and slips will work with the right airframe. I'm just not comfortable slipping a long-body Mooney for a number of reasons. I used to slip my K all the time, but I've only slipped the TN once and I didn't like the result.

 

One thing I love about MooneySpace is that you can post an honest question and not be excoriated by other posters. I love the fellowship on this board.

[DS1980]

Jay Z. Taming the fire breathing dragon!

[1964-M20E]

I use the side slip method. 

 

I remember when I was getting my license my instructor and I were doing pattern work.  We were doing landings on 36R with a strong NW cross wind.  I would start off doing good right down the center line and during flare would end up on the right side of the runway.  The instructor told me "let me show you how to do it" after several landings like that.  So on the next approach we ended up on the right side of the runway in the same spot.  The instructor then said let's change runways.  This was probably the best cross wind practice I ever had.

[WardHolbrook]

I just posted this on another thread and it pertains to this one as well. (I love "cut & paste".)

 

Consistency is probably the single most important element when it comes to getting good landings - crosswind or otherwise. Remember, regardless of what the winds are doing, you always use the ailerons, as much as necessary throughout the flare, to keep the airplane from drifting laterally - left or right - from over the runway centerline. If you've got a strong crosswind, it's simply going to take more aileron. If you've got little or no crosswind, it will take little or no aileron input. As far as rudder input goes, that's just as simple too - you add enough to keep the airplane aligned parallel to the runway. If you don't have much crosswind, it won't take much rudder. If you've got a lot of crosswind it will take a lot of rudder. If you've got so much crosswind that you hit the stops on the rudder and you're still not able to keep the airplane aligned you've reached the crosswind limit for that airplane. What I've just described is the "wing low" method for crosswind landings. Flying an airplane is dynamic. You're always moving the flight controls to make the airplane do exactly what you want it to do. (Remember: "FTDA" - Fly The D@mn Airplane) However, as your speed slows during the flare, you will need to increase control deflection to compensate for the loss of airflow over the control surface. It is not a "set it and forget it" scenario. (There is also a "crab and kickout" method, but unless you happen to be flying a jet transport with the engines mounted below the wings there's really not too much need to use that particular method. Although some guys like it, its use is in most cases purely personal preference.)

 

As far as gusts go, the usual technique is to add 1/2 of the gust value to your approach speed. You also need to look at the maximum gust value - you wouldn't want to be in the flare when the wind decided it was time to "gust to 25 knots" if you weren't comfortable with that strong of a crosswind. The biggest mistakes I see people make is that they fly the approach way too fast - they're using the Max Gross Weight approach speed when they significantly lighter, then they add 1/2 the gust factor plus a bit more for the wife and kids, then they add just a little bit more "just to be safe". Then instead of flying the approach at 1.3 VS + 1/2 the gust value, you'll see guys 5 to 15 knots too fast. And then they float and float and float... And of course the more time you spend floating down the runway, the more time there is to screw up the landing. 

[Super Dave]

Like others here, I like to approach in a crab and transition to a slip in the flare. The problem with developing the skill is that you are only in the slip for a couple of seconds on each landing. So, even if you go out and do cross-wind landing for an hour and a half, you are still only getting about 30 seconds of practicing the slip.

 

What I used to like to do with students practicing cross-winds was find a nice long runway and have them make a normal approach, but in the flare, add a little power, level off a few feet high, and fly down the centerline so they could practice the slip for the length of the runway. As the departure end of the runway approaches, add full power and make a normal go around. 

 

So, I'd recommend taking up an instructor and make several passes as I've described. Your goal is to point the nose straight down the runway with assertive use of the rudder, and keep the centerline right underneath your seat with use of aileron. 

[Piloto]

On slippery (ice or water) runways Mooneys have a tendency to weathervane into the wind on crosswind landings upon contact with the ground. This is due to the floating ground effect that reduces the tires grip to the runway. To overcome this I retract completely the flaps just before touchdown. This reduces the wing lift assuring a solid tire grip. It also raise the nose slightly, preventing nose bouncing. Specially good on gusty crosswinds conditions.

 

José   

[midlifeflyer]

My theory on teaching and doing crosswind landings is in my FAQ at http://midlifeflight.com/flying-faq/faq-takeoffs-and-landings/

[N601RX]

I've found that starting the slip early gives me a chance to get a good feel for what the plane and winds are doing and what is necessary to keep it lined up. I've also found that in a long slip that when pulling gas from the downward wing the engine will start to sputter even though there is still 7 or 8 gallons in the low tank..

[midlifeflyer]

I've found that starting the slip early gives me a chance to get a good feel for what the plane and winds are doing and what is necessary to keep it lined up. I've also found that in a long slip that when pulling gas from the downward wing the engine will start to sputter even though there is still 7 or 8 gallons in the low tank..

From the M20J POH:

 

//WlARNlNG//

/////////

Takeoff manauvers, prolonged sideslips or steep descents when the selected

fuel tank contains less than 8 gallons (48.0 Ibs., 30.3 liters, 8.7 IMP. Gal.) of

fuel have not been demonstrated and may cause loss of power

 

I 

[Ftlausa]

I use the crab and kick method, but I kick before the flare as I am going over the threshold.  That seems to give me adequate time to transition from the crab to the slip, but not so long in the slip that the increased sink rate (in an aggressive slip) requires any adjustment other than perhaps a little more flare.     

[N601RX]

 

From the M20J POH:

 

//WlARNlNG//

/////////

Takeoff manauvers, prolonged sideslips or steep descents when the selected

fuel tank contains less than 8 gallons (48.0 Ibs., 30.3 liters, 8.7 IMP. Gal.) of

fuel have not been demonstrated and may cause loss of power

 

I 

 

Unfortunately the older model POH is considerably thinner and lacking in many areas compared to the J and newer ones, (30 pages vs 180 pages).  The POH for the F model says to use the fuller tank and that can get you into trouble. Its one of those things I learned the hard way and luckily didn't bend anything in the process.

[yvesg]

What about selecting the wing tank that is up? Any issues with that?

Yves

[flyboy0681]

Keep in mind that the crosswind landing does not end the moment the mains hit the ground.

[WardHolbrook]

 

From the M20J POH:

 

//WlARNlNG//

/////////

Takeoff manauvers, prolonged sideslips or steep descents when the selected

fuel tank contains less than 8 gallons (48.0 Ibs., 30.3 liters, 8.7 IMP. Gal.) of

fuel have not been demonstrated and may cause loss of power

 

I 

 

Which is just another reason why you do want your fuel reserve in one tank, not spread out over multiple tanks.

[Earl]

I had always crabbed and then transitioned into a slip at touchdown.  However, when I transitioned to my Mooney the CFI suggested I use the slip technique and that has been my SOP.  My home base is oriented 09/27 and when the winds are blowing it is always out of the NW so I get lots of practice.  I will say that when I am low on fuel and am slipping I have seen the low fuel warning light come on and I have returned to a crab.  Either works for me but I have gotten used to slipping and find the transition to landing less complicated and smooth.  And dittos to the response that mentioned you have to continue to fly the plane after landing, especially the Mooney.  I have been a little lazy a couple of times and found myself fighting to keep close to the centerline.

[BigTex]

Back in my aerobatic days, always slipped on final. So when doing my transition, I naturally started slipping on final. The instructor let me know that passengers are very uncomfortable when slipping so it's much better to crab then slip over the threshold. So I make a point of always keeping my crab in as long as possible when I have passengers.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

@David: Can you ground loop a tricycle gear plane?

[1964-M20E]

I’m would not think so  with the CG in front of the mains.  Even with a castering front wheel I do not think you could ground loop but you have to be on top of things for weather vanning.