IPAD on order

[Earl]

Quote: The-sky-captain

Please forgive my non techie thick headedness but I am still a little confused on which iPad (3g or not) would fit me best. The main reason (aviation wise) I am wanting it is for the approach plates and geo referencing on the sectionals and IFR charts. I know 3g is recommended by some but than I read Jeff S saying the GPS worked fine w/o the 3g. Thanks in advance for any help. Looking at buying in the next day or so and am looking forward to using it for flight as well as numerous other daily mundane activities.

[sixsixX]

The i pad sure is getting a lot of attention, If you simply want to refrence charts and use just wi-fi to acess all the foreflight info on the ground the lower versions of the i pad will be fine, as for the gps refrencing in the air the 3g models are the only ones to allow gps refrencing, even with little to no 3g signal, both foreflight and other users have tested up to 11,500 and found the gps was still able to refrence position on the latest foreflight software on sectional and ifr maps, there is no geo refrencing on plates ,just the maps.  In truth, to use an i pad to refrence maps ,especially ifr low enroutes is simply awesome, i used foreflight on a ifr trip last week and every one of my 3 reroutes by atc were easily brought up and all fixes airways were at my fingertips, allowing me to keep all the paper charts in my flightbag during the entire trip !! GPS or no gps this feature on an i pad justifys having it alone, on the ground, flight planning ,weather are awesome on the ipad and the foreflight program , That said ,it is justified to have the nice size of an ipad for viewing of charts, airport info, and now georefrncing on the maps while in the air , and the remainder of its functions on the ground. The size of the unit and foreflight are just tools we can use until maybe more develops for this product, Expecting it to perform like a 496 or other portable gps units is not what this product can do at this time, But what it can do for now is provide a very easy to use view of mapping . airport info , plates that will be easy to acess and view in the plane and provide a wealth of info while on the ground. 

[The-sky-captain]

Thanks for tthe quick response guys, greatly appreciated!

[Barry]

Actually, I take a little different tack. If you get the 3G in the unit ... you are stuck with 3G when 4G comes around ... and 4G is LOTS better than 3G. The metrics are 4G 3-6 Mbs vs 600Kbs-1.4Mbs; with a peak of 10Mbs vs 3.1Mbs for 3G. In addition, you need to pay for another wireless service just for the iPad. With the money you save from getting the non-3G unit, you can get a blue tooth connected WAAS GPS unit and have change left over. You can then get a "MyFi (or whatever it is called)" 4G WAP from Sprint. You can then use this WAP not only for the iPad but for any device that has wireless access in it PLUS you can use it for 3G to connect to the internet, as well as 4G when it becomes more prevelant. It is battery powered and you can put it in your shirt pocket for 3G/4G connection. Wireless to the internet and wireless to your iPad plus anything else that has WiFi in it.

We have them at work and they are really neat little devices. Pay for 1 wireless device to access the Internet, use it for many devices to access the person.

[Barry]

It's called an "Overdrive". I have a blurb on it on the 1st page of this thread ...

Sorry ... a senior moment ..

[hansel]

Quote: Barry

Actually, I take a little different tack. If you get the 3G in the unit ... you are stuck with 3G when 4G comes around ... and 4G is LOTS better than 3G. The metrics are 4G 3-6 Mbs vs 600Kbs-1.4Mbs; with a peak of 10Mbs vs 3.1Mbs for 3G. In addition, you need to pay for another wireless service just for the iPad. With the money you save from getting the non-3G unit, you can get a blue tooth connected WAAS GPS unit and have change left over. You can then get a "MyFi (or whatever it is called)" 4G WAP from Sprint. You can then use this WAP not only for the iPad but for any device that has wireless access in it PLUS you can use it for 3G to connect to the internet, as well as 4G when it becomes more prevelant. It is battery powered and you can put it in your shirt pocket for 3G/4G connection. Wireless to the internet and wireless to your iPad plus anything else that has WiFi in it.

We have them at work and they are really neat little devices. Pay for 1 wireless device to access the Internet, use it for many devices to access the person.

[MooneyMitch]

Here's how the iPad lays in the yoke.  We have the rubber case installed which keeps the unit from slipping.  I understand that the $39 full iPad case actually allows the unit to be tilted to different viewing angles.  Might give that a try too.

[The-sky-captain]

Looks good Mitch! I just got the 64GB 3G last night and am looking forward to using it. Not sure how/if I will mount it due to my 496 which is on the pilot's yoke.

[PTK]

Looks good.  How does iy mount on the yoke?  And do you find it obscures or get in the way of your scan in any way?  Do you wish it was a little smaller?  Thanks.

[PTK]

I have another question.  What is the difference of running foreflight on the iPad vs. iPhone.  Is it simply screen size or is there anything else? Seems to me an iPhone would sit nicely on the yoke and it does run foreflight skycharts and the like.  Just curious. Thanks.

[MooneyMitch]

The iPhone and the iPad both run Foreflight.  Screen size appears to be the only difference.  The iPad simply wedges between the yoke uprights and rests on the horizontal part of the yoke.   This is with the rubber perimeter case we have installed on the unit.  Per another Ovation friend, the larger iPad case seems to offer more flexibilty with viewing angles.  Hope this helps. 

[rbharvey]

Iphone doesnt currently provide the GPS info tape (TRK, GS, etc) or airplane icon while in the map mode like the Ipad does running Foreflight

[scottfromiowa]

That looks like a major instrument blocker...Can you still do a scan from normal viewing position?

[Earl]

Barry:  I had a quick question and a comment on the approach you suggested.  It seems to me that ordering the 3g version still makes sense even if you decide to not use the internal 3g but elect to use a bluetooth-connected wireless provider, right?  The reason I say this is because using the 3g version you get the advantage of the internal gps versus some external source along with the benefit of using the bluetooth wireless source.  As for the 4g, I suppose it might be worth the wait but at some point you have to decide to buy instead of waiting for the next latest and greatest.  Extending that logic you would wait for the 5g version instead of the 4g and so on.  I guess I am saying at some point you have to buy recognizing that something new will come along because they are in the business of selling new stuff.

[carusoam]

I hear 10,000 trees sying in relief....the age of paper is coming to an end at a faster rate than ever before....

Great photos Mitch!

[The-sky-captain]

A few clairifications please. First of all I have never used Foreflight, yeah, i know slap me! What, in a nutshell, does it do that fltplan.com or the AOPA flight planning site will not? I have also seen where some have downloaded Sky Charts Pro and used this on the iPad. How do these differ from the Foreflight maps and charts? Thanks again!

[Jeff_S]

Someone a page or two ago asked at what altitude I was still able to get 3G coverage. As has been noted, it's not something to rely on, and it will depend on the area in which you're flying. But I've heard that annoying beeping static in my headset as high as 5-6000' around Atlanta, which is one of the most heavily-covered wireless data areas in the country.

To Sky Captain's question about what ForeFlight does. What does it do compared to Fltplan or AOPA Flight Manager? From a flight planning capacity, in some respects not as much. It's not as easy to experiment with fuel and winds at different altitudes, for example. But the beauty of it is that it WILL do everything you need it to do, and it does so with a very slick and graphical user interface that's easy to learn and shows you all the data you want. And of course, the beauty is it will do all this wherever you have a wireless data connection. So it makes all this info much more accessible.

Then, of course, the newest versions are taking advantage of the built in GPS on iPhone and iPad 3G to provide true moving map coverage while in-flight, so as has also been noted above, this can replace paper charts in the cockpit which for Part 91 flight is within the regs. Not sure how this applies to commercial flyers.

[Earl]

Jeff:  Do you get coverage consistently at that altitude around Atlanta?  I spend so little time here and am usually outside the area before they let me up to any decent altitude but I forgot my ipad on my last flight so I could not test it.  It's my view that the 3g will be of limited value in flight for most of us most of the time.  Will probably only work in departure and approach so for those of us that fly cross country we still need to rely on weather info from our 496/696.  I do plan to use the approach plates and drop that subscription to Garmin.  That savings alone will almost pay for my 3g service.  If ipad figures out how to get xm weather then I really believe Garmin is in trouble. 

[MooneyMitch]

Quote: scottfromiowa

That looks like a major instrument blocker...Can you still do a scan from normal viewing position?

[MooneyMitch]

Quote: rbharvey

Iphone doesnt currently provide the GPS info tape (TRK, GS, etc) or airplane icon while in the map mode like the Ipad does running Foreflight

[rob]

Quote: Barry

Actually, I take a little different tack. If you get the 3G in the unit ... you are stuck with 3G when 4G comes around ... and 4G is LOTS better than 3G. The metrics are 4G 3-6 Mbs vs 600Kbs-1.4Mbs; with a peak of 10Mbs vs 3.1Mbs for 3G. In addition, you need to pay for another wireless service just for the iPad. With the money you save from getting the non-3G unit, you can get a blue tooth connected WAAS GPS unit and have change left over. You can then get a "MyFi (or whatever it is called)" 4G WAP from Sprint. You can then use this WAP not only for the iPad but for any device that has wireless access in it PLUS you can use it for 3G to connect to the internet, as well as 4G when it becomes more prevelant. It is battery powered and you can put it in your shirt pocket for 3G/4G connection. Wireless to the internet and wireless to your iPad plus anything else that has WiFi in it.

We have them at work and they are really neat little devices. Pay for 1 wireless device to access the Internet, use it for many devices to access the person.

[Barry]

True ... but at this time ... in DC, the Sprint 4G is waaay faster than the ATT 3G. The ATT 3G is, indeed, faster than the Sprint 3G, so I would guess that they will probably continue this trend. Anyway, the fact that haveing a device which will do the upcoming technology and not have it tied to an individual piece of hardware is still a valid point. How many wireless connections does one want to pay for ?? Believe me when I say that the phone company has a lot more money than anyone on this site.

[rbharvey]

Quote: rbharvey

Iphone doesnt currently provide the GPS info tape (TRK, GS, etc) or airplane icon while in the map mode like the Ipad does running Foreflight

[Jeff_S]

Quote: ehscott

Jeff:  Do you get coverage consistently at that altitude around Atlanta?  I spend so little time here and am usually outside the area before they let me up to any decent altitude but I forgot my ipad on my last flight so I could not test it.  It's my view that the 3g will be of limited value in flight for most of us most of the time.  Will probably only work in departure and approach so for those of us that fly cross country we still need to rely on weather info from our 496/696.  I do plan to use the approach plates and drop that subscription to Garmin.  That savings alone will almost pay for my 3g service.  If ipad figures out how to get xm weather then I really believe Garmin is in trouble. 

[The-sky-captain]

While using the approach plates do they have to be "saved" prior to losing internet connectivity? While at altitude I can't pull up approaches that I have not previously saved/ opened. This could be a problem if I had to shoot an approach at an unplanned airport, which is why I still carry paper as a backup. One other thing I noticed on a recent flight to the east coast was that the georeferencing on the charts was fairly spotty at best. It would track me for a few minutes than a message would pop up saying something to the effect that "Foreflight had lost connectivity". Not the end of the world, just a little frustrating. Any imput would be appreciated. Thanks!