231LV

A follow up to the original post...yesterday, I took off for our trip back home. We were at sea level departing CA (KLVK) and on climb out, I noted only 28 inches of MP at 100% hp....something was way wrong with this picture. As I was sorting it out and turning cross to downwind at about 3k ft, the engine "burped" and power dropped off pretty severely. I elected to return to the airport and had a non-event landing. The plane is sitting on the ramp awaiting a mechanic to tear into the engine and determine what went wrong. In the meantime, my wife and I drove the 12 hours home.

That sounds like the numbers I am used to seeing...thanks very much

A ff of 8 to 9 gph would cause my engine to quit....I typically run 10 to 11 gph when LOP but I will dial back my ff until it stumbles as you may be correct that I was still not running lean enough

That is a good plan. Of course, the max MP my engine can tolerate is 37 inches due to the intercooler

I’m running LOP so the manuals are not really relevant as they are settings for ROP

Quick question for the group running turbo’s; last week I was on a trip that had me at 17k ft. My MP was maxed out at 24 inches with throttle pushed all the way in. I was running LOP at about 11 gph, 2500 rpm. I have an intercooler. Does this MP sound abnormally low? I haven’t been this high in quite awhile so I couldn’t recall what I typically saw in the past but it seems that I was able to see a higher MP previously. I ask because I was experiencing a similar “ lower than normal” power output even though everything on the JPI said all was well inside the cylinders. I thought I was having a turbo related issue and had my mechanic check it but all was well. It wasn’t until annual that my mechanic ran a compression test and found one cylinder dead even though it looked fine on the JPI. I’m wondering if I may have another dead cylinder. The JPI says all is well.....the engine is run out...old GB with about 1900 hrs.

Thank you for the thoughts based on experience...yes, the "boss" is pretty good (even with progressive deterioration of muscular dystrophy) she is pretty willing to try and we use her wheelchair everywhere so it has a lot of mileage on various caribbean islands. Obviously, I try to take as much stress off her as possible which is why I was concerned about returning through Cent Am. She is also nervous about a long overwater since if something happened, she figures she would be toast. I planned to "hopscotch" down with land within sight as much as possible and stopping at the places she really enjoyed when on cruise ships. Sounds like a return trip with different islands would be best...I do have it laid out on FF...really helps to put the whole thing together....thank again!!

Fantastic info! Really helpful....at this point, my plan to to clear through the Bahamas and stay on one of the islands for a few days...then San Juan for a couple weeks in an Airbnb.....on down to St Lucia for another week or so airbnb then Grenada for a week or two airbnb. Stops in between for fuel but at $100/landing, I will have to be judicious. My wife really wants to pop over to Curacao and I figured once there, it would be better to come home via Central America rather than retrace our steps. Would I be wise to stay away from Central Am? We have spent a fair amount of time flying down in Baja with no problems but only limited time in mainland Mexico. Obviously, I plan on avoiding Venezuela entirely but would likely have to stop in Columbia for fuel/rest...Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras and Guatemala are total unknowns to me.

Great info, Dave! We were down in the Caribbean last month and three months before that so have seen first hand the devastation from the hurricanes on the USVI. Both times we were in Old Town San Juan was during daytime hours so no experience with staying although Airbnb reviews seem pretty awesome with no mention of problems....we don't really care for Aruba and Grand Cayman is way off the beaten path...better to get there via Cancun or over flight from Key West over Cuba...probably not on this itinerary and neither is Belize. I would prefer to avoid S America entirely but will likely need to fuel in Columbia if heading home via Central America....I will PM you!

Although still early, I am beginning to plan a trip throughout the Caribbean for my wife and I in our plane. I would love to hear the thoughts of those who have already done this along with suggestions, concerns, places to see, etc. We plan on doing this sometime early next year (Jan,Feb,March). We have no time limits and plan to be gone at least a month. At this point, we will Airbnb in Old San Juan, PR, St Lucia, Grenada and possibly Curacao. There will be nightly stops throughout the Bahamas and other islands like Dominica and USVI for fuel and sightseeing and if we like what we see, stay a while. Flight planning shows around 3200 nm to Grenada from our home in SedonaAZ but my wife really wants to go onto Curacao which looks doable without stopping in Venezuela. If we do that, it would seem the best way home is up through Central America. I plan to purchase a raft rather than rent one plus personal locators and vests. We have spent some time visiting most the islands in the Caribbean and know which one's we really are not interested in seeing again but would like any suggestions on some of the islands not on cruise itineraries. I have already received costs for tie down, immigration, etc in Grenada and fuel seems to hover around US$7/gal throughout the Caribbean for 100LL. We are experienced flying out of the states to Mexica and Canada but haven't headed into the Caribbean before. I do plan to spend most flight hours in the morning before the air gets hot. If anyone has some experience, I would really enjoy hearing from you....thanks!

yes....always get that confused....thanks

Just remember...the ADSB mandate date of 1/1/20 is coming up which means shops will start booking out so get in line as soon as you have your plane bought and paid for...agree with your thinking....

Having owned my 231 for about 15 years, I concur with most of what the others have said.....saying that, in my opinion (for what its worth), were I to do everything over again and start where you are I would seriously consider the 252 with the specific serial numbers which allow for the MB engine upgrade. Not all 252's are eligible and there was a thread here a while back which specified which serial numbers were eligible and the approximate cost. The price differential between the 231 and 252 (IIRC) is/was $60k ish...The Rocket is fast but at a hefty price in fuel burn and purchase price. If you are determined to stay with the 231 (and there are some real steals out there) I consider an intercooler a mandatory item along with a good engine analyzer and Gami's. This gets you running LOP where life is cooler and more economical. Regarding the panel, where do you want to start?? Most planes are slowly going glass which is pricey. More than likely, you will pay for the glass in the purchase price but at a minimum, a WAAS 430 or equivalent for nav purposes....The 231's come standard with a decent autopilot (mine has a Century 41) but make sure it is in good shape as they are very expensive to repair. There are very few GB engines left in the 231 fleet but if the plane you are looking at has one, don't run away from it. I have been running a GB for 15 years and it still is running fine. I just keep it below 380 degrees on the hottest jug. You should be able to negotiate the price a bit lower versus an LB. Weeping fuel tanks are costly to repair correctly so check for fuel stains after a flight or better yet, a log book entry showing they were done....not patched but a full strip and reseal. I strongly suggest a plane that already has the ADSB mandate fulfilled. That speaks to the panel and what the previous owner did. Built in O2 is a definite for me but you can get away with portables in a pinch. Speed brakes are a nice to have but not a gotta have. There you have it....the 231 is a great machine and I get 175 kts true at 17k on about 11 gph....tough to beat those economics. The 252 upgrade gets you an increase in useful load which is always nice as the stock 231 is rather anemic in that department. I fly out of northern AZ so known Ice is not on my mandatory list...if there is ice in the clouds, I won't go....A/C is a nice to have but not at the sacrifice of useful load for me...hot prop....I have it....rarely used it except in ice which I always tried to get out of faster than I got into it....good luck in your search and if you find a gem....jump on it....they don't hang around for long!

Got a quote from a shop after discussing and Ea100 is numero uno, then a electric backup AI and finally a 1000 MFD....with labor.....$20k.....hellishly expensive

Yes...I notice a "creep" as MP increases. I attributed it to a friction cable slipping. It's annoying but an occasional reset solves my problem

Most have covered the pros and cons of the 201 vs 231 so I can not add much more other than to tell you I have owned my 231 for 15 years and love the turbo. My attitude towards hourly cost is "if I have to ask..." I would jump on a 231 over a 201...especially if it is priced lower.....not even a question...

Thanks for this invaluable info...really good to get educated! Another quick question....I reviewed my installation log book when the Aspen 1000 PFD was installed back in 2014. There was no mention of an Ea100 installation but the log reflected that the autopilot was tied to the Garmin 430. My question is, does the autopilot rely on the vacuum AI or the 430? If the former, it sounds like an Ea100 is required to remove the vacuum system (along with certified backup electric AI)...if the later, is an Ea100 even required?

Absolutely agree, have your mechanic inspect regarding the turbo and all associated lines, gaskets, etc. Also, tell your mechanic to run a compression check on all 6 jugs....my 231 exhibited similar characteristics as you described, though more subtle which lead me to believe I had a turbo problem. Turned out I had lost all compression on 1 of my jugs....it was still firing and looked normal on the JPI but wasn't putting out any power.

Well, I already have the Aspen Evolution 1000 PFD installed....

Would a lifesaver with battery backup allow me to nix the vacuum system as one early poster stated? I understand the second Aspen unit won't solve my initial problem (which is a failing vacuum AI) and since I must address this first, my next priority is for an AI and I agree that pouring good money after bad on a vacuum instrument may be cheaper in the short run but much more expensive when a vacuum pump or stand-by pump fails. The G5, strictly speaking, won't legally solve my problem since it is not a certified backup (though it is a pretty cool instrument)...the L3 500 solves all my issues but at a considerable cost which leaves the Lifesaver at a reduced expense provided it is a legal back-up. Is it?

So the Garmin G5 allows one to eliminate the vacuum system? I didn't realize the P/S represented a single point failure for the Aspen but now I understand. Thanks for the explanation!

couple of good questions which I need to verify but the last time I discussed this with a shop, I thought I heard them tell me the Aspen 1000 MFD will satisfy the backup redundancy because it has a separate battery from the main buss and the Aspen 1000 PFD. I don't know the specifics of the STC or whether it mandates an air driven backup. Aspen claims the 1000 MFD serves as redundant PFD

OK....another brain twister for the group....my Century vacuum driven A/H was slow to erect this am on a flight. I realize this is the beginning of the O/H decision as it won't fix itself. I have an Aspen Evolution 1000 PFD installed and love it. The Aspen Evolution 1000 MFD can serve as an independent redundancy to the PFD plus gives me maps, terrain, navigation, etc etc. I like the idea of ditching my vacuum A/H as that will make my cockpit an all glass electronic set-up.... here's the catch....the Aspen MFD will run around $7-8k without install....used, they are around $4k.....overhauling the A/H is less than $1k but keeps me dependent upon vacuum pump and stand-by pump...if either of those crap out, the "synthetic" o/h cost will go beyond the cost of the Aspen.....I'm thinking upgrading to the Aspen MFD is the way to go.....can someone check my thinking?

I recently priced(within the last 6 months) an LB upgrade from my existing GB at both engine overhaulers (Western Skyways, Victor Aviation, Ly-Con etc) and factory reman from Continental....The overhaulers were from $43k to $60k...some poo poo'd the idea of "blueprinting" and others (who quoted the highest) said it would really make for a smoother running engine...The factory quoted around $53k....in all cases, my mechanic told me it would be around $7-8k for R&R, hoses, fittings, etc...I have a Turboplus Intercooler and the GB is Gami'd.... as one previous poster pointed out, you can use someone who does a field overhaul or an engine overhauler specialist or the factory at anytime...you will automatically get the LB engine from a engine specialist or the factory...if you pay someone to rebuild the GB as a field overhaul, you will still have a GB...I would not stay with the GB as it is like a non-WAAS'd GPS on resale value.

I recall purchasing my first Mooney and "perusing" the logs....honestly, I had no clue what to look for. Pay a good mechanic to thoroughly review them and have him thoroughly look at the plane (not doing a PPI, yet) before even getting into a negotiation on price. His initial overview of logs and plane as it sits may give you a good starting point for a price provided it passes a thorough PPI. The first years of owning your own plane will always cost you more than you figured...at least that was my situation because you need to fix problems not initially found in the PPI and you want to get it to a place you want it to be regarding avionics, etc.......good luck!