231LV

Thanks guys! I have also asked for a quote from Ly-Con which should be delivered tomorrow but I specified over the phone that I want the engine to new service limits and an LB upgrade with turbo and fixed waste gate overhauls plus new, nitrided Continental Cylinders....the guy gave me a ballpark "guesstimate" with the caveat that the actual quote guy will send me a written but its in the same range as Western Skyways....about $10 to $11k savings over a factory reman. This might get me the Lynx/Aspen ADS-B solution and leave some for a Merlyn!!

The written quote is for the LB upgrade and includes the turbo overhaul and fixed wastegate. There was a time when full throttle got me to 22k ft...not anymore...my mechanic tells me Field Overhauls with big engine rebuilders is a "hit and miss" proposition, in his opinion.

The written quote I received from Western Skyways pretty much spells out everything they include which is what I get with the factory reman

Well, since I got such a great response to my ADS-B inquiries, I thought I would throw this one out for thoughts, as well... My M20k has the original TSIO-360-GB engine with a little over 1800 hours. I have been flying it the past 13 years and the previous owner also "babied" the engine but owners prior...who knows?? The engine has been getting regular oil analysis at every 25 hour change with "good" results. It uses a quart every 9-10 hours. It is leaking oil around the push rod tube seals and a bit of seepage at the bases of a couple of cylinders which makes a bit of a mess on the belly. It is Gami'd and I run it LOP and do not exceed 380 degrees on the hottest jug. It has a fixed waste gate and intercooler but the engine has lost critical altitude (running at full throttle) from around 22,000 ft to 17,000 ft. I realize there are a couple schools of thought regarding engines and TBO but I have decided that since it is the original hot-running GB and seeping oil, I want to replace it and do the ADS-B at the same time. Now the question(s) I want to throw out there are, first, Factory Reman or Field Overhaul done by an Engine Specialist like Ly-Con, Western Skyways, Mattituk, etc. The reason I put this out is the price difference between the two is close to $11k. The second question I have is if Field Overhaul, which engine shop carries the top recommendations? Thoughts??

Check out the Dynon EFISD100....STC'd for every Mooney and the EAA will sell the STC for membership and $100....the Dynon gives you A LOT of capability for about 1/2 the cost of a VFR Aspen box. This probably belongs under its own topic heading but the EAA is doing great stuff to bring reasonably priced avionics into the certified cockpit.http://www.dynonavionics.com/retrofit/

The issues mentioned regarding Navworx and the 978 mhz versus 1090es mhz are very real and serious considerations. I hadn't thought about future resale value since I don't plan to ever sell but my estate undoubtably will! I don't have to have a second Aspen (though I would very much like one) and IF I can swing it, the Lynx set up would be my preferred solution. IF I can't....then I have to consider the navworx or something else.....great discussion and thoughts from all! Thanks

Great responses from everybody and lots of options which is really good. Regarding the Navworx and the FAA, who knows?? They say on their website that they are "soldiering on"...does that mean they are likely to go out of business? I don't have a good answer so it is a factor in figuring out the final solution...Regarding "patch work solutions" one poster mentioned...umm....not from where I sit. I have been thinking this through for the past couple of years (as I am sure others have, as well) but new products introduced constantly require renewed thinking and a dynamic situation that yields an obvious answer for all has not materialized, as near as I can tell. Regarding my particular mission...largely VFR but I maintain my IFR currency. Occasional cross-country trips and trips to Mexico (though when we were down in Mexico last week we all highly doubt the 1090 ES solution will be required equipment in Mexico for the foreseeable future since they barely have functional VOR's...Canada will likely require but I haven't made a trip up there yet). I don't do well above 18k ft physiologically and typically fly at 17 to 18k...been above 18k a couple of times but not enough to sway me toward a 1090ES solution on its own. I am not currently WAAS and wasn't planning to upgrade but I do have a Mode S transponder so the Navworx solution works for me. The whole ADS-B pitfalls are moot points since we all have to have it but I agree that compared to the WxWorx satellite program, it does come up short not being useful until around 1500 ft, relying on a ground station that may or may not be working at the moment and not seeing clouds but the offset is it is "free" although we pay for it through our taxes...tradeoffs. Regarding the Aspen, I love it..it is the IFR cert unit (1000PFD) and I'm seriously considering a second one which is why the Lynx is intriguing and prohibitive at the same time. It would be really cool to see traffic on my Aspen but to purchase the Lynx and do all the install, I suspect one will be well north of $5k...more like $8kish...another Aspen box is $12k plus install (if I want the IFR unit which could be the redundancy from the first)...VFR box is much cheaper. So for $20k, I can have a second Aspen MFD, and ADS-B In/Out solution and traffic on my Aspen...for around $8-9K...my current Aspen box plus ADS-B In/Out solution and traffic on my Aspen or for about $2k, I can have ADS-B In/Out and traffic on my iPad.......but no trips to the Bahamas or Canada.....that could be a deal breaker

I checked the forum subjects and was unable to find something recent to this discussion so if I am repeating what has already been discussed, I apologize. The mandate is looming (1/1/2020) and after a recent flying trip down to Baja with some other Mooney owners, the discussion centered around possible solutions and the associated costs. First and foremost, we all concluded that it is NOT likely that the FAA will postpone this requirement so if anyone plans to fly in anything other than uncontrolled airspace, a solution must be in our future plans. Second, we concluded that the shops that do these conversions will likely start booking up when we are 18 months or so out so action sooner rather than later is probably smart. Third, prices may continue to come down but not significantly more so whats out there is probably what we are looking at for a cost. Fourth, we all now understand that the FAA language is somewhat unclear regarding WAAS or non-WAAS. It appears that the language stops short of mandating WAAS but says that in order to enjoy the full benefits of ADS-B Out/In WAAS capability should be present(we were not sure what that means). So where does this leave us??? Most of the publications have done numerous rundowns of available solutions and associated costs so I won't rehash that here. Suffice it to say that you can spent A LOT or get away with only a couple of AMU's. Personally, I am looking at the NAVWORX ADS600B solution listed at $2020. http://navworx.com/ADS600BDescription.php. The Out portion is solved by an internal WAAS GPS and the "box" utilizes your existing Mode S transponder as a transmitter so no need for a replacement. Of course, there are additional costs such as the antenna and install but the ballpark costs are less than the $5k neighborhood of a year or so ago. This solution also gives you the IN. My panel already has an Aspen 1000 PDF so I'm trying to understand what display options I may get with the NAVWORXs box. Wondering what others are thinking?

HI all im flying a 1980 M20K and have the Klixon switch covers. I ordered a cover from Shapeways and sent it to a buddy who said he would try to lasar etch it. He just finished the process and is not happy with the finished product due to the graininess of the switch. He suggests using a different material ( Ultra Detail). If he can get the 3D file, he is happy to order a new switch with the new material and lasar etch the lettering with black infill. He thinks the cost of this new material would not be significantly more. If someone has the 3D file and is willing to make it available, we may have a new, better alternative.

With the Jan 2020 date a mere 4.5 years off, I am thinking more and more about the options now coming on line for the ADS-B out (With an In optional) mandate. I'm wondering whether there is a repository for posts on the website that one can peruse for the latest information. The whole concept is generally understood, I suspect, but the specifics which every pilot needs to make an informed decision gets sketchy. This will clearly impact the checkbook and I'm thinking a lot of us will be looking to improve our panels with this upgrade. The good news is more and more options are popping up at a lower cost. Does someone have a firm enough grasp on this to give a brief, succinct, understandable explanation. That would help me look at options and determine which way I should start leaning. I don't want to get caught in a massive upgrade line at the avionics shops which is why I'm posting this now instead of 3 years from now.

I can't overemphasize the importance of getting the fuel flow right with an intercooler....22 to 24 gph is what you should see when running 37 mp...thats about as high as I can go without overboosting the engine....if the A&P doesn't know how to set this up or sets it according to stock numbers, your CHT's will be over 400 at 2500 feet...as to cruise with intercooler...simply reduces the boost from 40 to about 36 or 37 tops...running LOP, 10.5 gph at 17k ft...TIT around 1620 and hottest cylinder at 380...TAS of about 175 kts...pretty straight forward

great thanks!!

I'm moving to Sedona in a couple of months and hoping to find a good shop or mechanic to do my annuals. Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Given the choice between listening to marketing hype and the science behind APS....easy decision

That is a great price for that plane! ...but I'm wondering, in conjunction with the OP, why an MB engine is so important? (The SB gives you 10 more hp but is not available to the 231 airframes) The LB is a vast improvement over the old GB and an auto wastegate can be included...the cowl is not radically different other than cowl flap configuration...I understand the desire for double alternators as the single one is barely enough but otherwise the 231 and 252 are not all that different....I can still get 175 ktas on 10 gph running LOP at 17k ft all day long....doubt a 262 or 252 will get much more on same fuel burn...

Pristine 252 will likely go for $180ish....my runout 231 with engine reserve ($58 k last I checked )won't get me there.....hence I'm still driving my runout 231....since I dont I don't disagree with your numbers which is why I never traded up...plus, I don't own one of the magic serial numbered 231 airframes....so a 262 was the best I could hope for....if the holder of the 262 conversion is still in business and you had to have a cloned 252, that's the route to go....for me, the cost was simply more than I was willing to pay...

well...for me, as I looked at the financial feasibility of it, the smart deal would be to sell my airframe with runout engine and combine my engine reserve to buy a nice 252...I'm guessing many would come to the same conclusion

I suspect if it was financially feasible, it would have been done by now...many Mooney shops specialize in parts (LASAR and Top Gun) so pursuing this would be logical if they saw a potential benefit

...no...It's a major alteration....gross weight increase and electrical....just getting a field approval from the local FSDO for a change in my landing light configuration was a pain...

With Spring flying upon some of us, I'm reminded of the bug problems....flew yesterday and spent an hour wiping the bugs off the leading edges, cowl, spinner and windshield...I'm wondering what some of you use to wipe the bugs off?

HI Geoff I, too, own a 231 with a runout GB engine...looked into this several years ago...the 262 upgrade was doable through Mooney Mart or one of those shops that I'm not sure are even in business any more. Maybe a 262 owner can chime in here....the only way to get a K to become a 252 requires the original airframe be serialed from 25-1000 through 25 -1230...otherwise no go. If you have one of those serialed airframes, you can purchase the required kits for the gross weight increase and double alternators for around $36k...this info is several years old and predates the latest Mooney shut down and subsequent purchase by the new owners so I'm not even sure this is still available and I'm willing to bet it is a lot more money....after all was said and done, I decided it would be a smarter deal to sell my airframe and runout engine, combine the proceeds with my engine reserve and buy a nice 252

2500

right about 10 gph.....but I always twist until I show at least 3 bars on the last jug to peak pushing me well into the lean side of peak...this takes me down to about 26 MP...add back to 30 and the FF runs up to about 10 GPH...Jugs running cool....same set up running ROP is closer to 13 GPH...I can verify using the formula for power on the lean side...turns out I am getting 65% power running lean....once established. I can re-evaluate where I am using the JPI.....having already done this numerous times, I know that 10 gph puts my engine right where it is happiest...

hmmm....I must be simple and dumb....I pull back to 75% power from full power climb (after leveling off), close the cowl flaps, dial the prop rpm to 2500 and pull the red knob....set the JPI for LOP and start twisting the knob til all 6 jugs are registering on the lean side...add back MP to 30 inches and set the A/P...enjoy the scenery and monitor the temps

Try closer to $55k....