231LV

Hi Jimmy, If I recall, my O2 bottle (kevlar) will require replacing at upcoming annual. I'm wondering what it will cost to replace. O2 bottle and system installed per factory drawings at Top Gun in Stockton. 1980 M20K

Yes...the SB....sorry

I was a C owner for about 4 years and then traded up to a K which I have owned now for about 13 years. The difference between a C and K is pretty significant. Before making the switch, carefully examine your typical mission. If you don't ever plan on flying mountains, a J is a great plane. If you plan on mountain or other higher altitude flying, a turbo is the way to go. That said, once you have decided to go with a turbo, then it becomes a matter of budget. There are several great turbo variations. The 231 is your least costly turbo. Most 231's are already upgraded to the LB engine (I still have a GB in mine). You would also want an intercooler, as well. If your budget allows, a 252 is the better plane between the two, in my opinion. There are a small number of specific serialized 252's that can be upgraded to an SB engine but requires heavier landing gear, etc and more money. The price difference between a stock K and the 252 is about $50k...give or take. All that said, I love my K and can't imagine flying a non-turbo. I fly out of a higher elevation airport so my turbo is used. The intercooler is a must, in my opinion and an automatic wastegate would be a nice improvement over the stock fixed, if you can find a plane with one. The difference between the C and K is night and day...a K will overtake a C in a climb, it has more room in the back seat and has a "cooler" long nose look (in my opinion). It also typically comes with much better avionics and an autopilot. The engine is heavier so turns will pull the nose down until you get used to it. K's burn about 2 gph (LOP) and closer to 5 gph (ROP) more than a C but are at least 15 to 20kts faster down low and up high, 30 plus kts... My true is about 175 at 10.5 gph at 17k ft running LOP. Of course, I have an old, tired GB engine.

After checking into all this and looking at my checking account, I envy your wallet....this upgrade will be close to half the value of the plane. The G500 doesn't have the backup that the Aspen 2000 does but it sure look nice.

Just got off the phone with the avionics manager and he confirmed the 330 ES is OUT only so compliant but no IN. Running through different scenarios (substitute GTN 650 for a 430 WAAS upgrade, the 330 with a 345, go with an L3 Lynx, ect) and the AMU's start spinning up rapidly. The GTN 650 is an $11k box plus 40 hours to install. The 345 is a $6k box...the Lynx is "dead nuts" expensive at $8k plus install...so I choose to spend the $5.5k on the 430 WAAS upgrade and the $1.5k upgrade of the 330 and call it good for now. Eventually a GTN 650 and 345??....maybe but not on this go around. I do see traffic with the 330 and if I want to boost it, I can get a Stratus. I'm compliant and I live to fight another day. At some point, I guess I have to start thinking about just how much money do I want to put into avionics? The sky is the limit but my mission hardly warrants all the bells and whistles.....

Hmmm.....I will have to verify....avionics shop manager told me I could get In/Out with GTX 330 upgrade.

Nope...I have my existing unit that will be pulled for upgrade....BUT I will negotiate with the avionics manager...thanks all!!

Well, the cost and inconvenience of flying out of state, getting a round trip airline ticket and all that will be eaten up by the delta between what I am being charged and a lower, out of state shop...maybe.

Let me do an update to this thread since I have done more research and am scheduled for the plane to go into the shop next Monday. First, after discussing my needs/concerns with the avionics shop manager, I have elected to do the following: upgrade my current Garmin 430 to WAAS...around $5 AMU's. Upgrade my Garmin GTX 330 to 1090 ES..around $2 AMU's plus tax takes me close to $8...I get ADS-B In/Out, interface with iPad for traffic and I am compliant with 2020. Of course, that got me to thinking about where I want to be in the future and is this the most efficient path forward...first off, the Boss, "La Patrona", SWMBO "She Who Must Be Obeyed" has informed me that she does not like the look of twin Aspen 1000's in the panel...she wants something "flatter"....ie, an MFD screen. Since I was originally planning to go with a second Aspen (already have the first installed) and the installed price for that second unit is about $16 AMU's, I'm now wondering about removing the Aspen and replacing it with a G500 or GTN 750 instead. I'm driving a Century 41 A/P so that should not present a problem with the Garmin setup and La Patrona likes the look of the Garmin over the twin Aspens. Before I call the shop manager to discuss "options" I'm wondering if anyone else is where or has been where I am at now and can offer their thoughts?....Oh...as a rehash...I am IFR certified and maintain currency but don't do much actual IMC...trips are cross country, out of the country, occasionally and short 1 to 3 hour hops around the southwest (where we live)

Having owned two Mooney's (a C and a K), I agree that opinions from all of us are just that...our opinions. My opinion, FWIW, is similar to a couple of others regarding "buy the owner, not the plane". If the owners both fly the planes LOP (I know, some still quiver and shake at the thought), the engines are being treated right and it's simply a matter of choosing the one you "feel best with"....maybe the lower cost one, maybe not....if one owner pounds the engine running at 50 ROP and the other runs it LOP, I would put my money with the plane run LOP. With either plane, you are likely to be spending some money over the next two or three years to get it where you want it. Enjoy the experience, not many of us get to purchase our own "magic carpets"!

I am the OP of the thread...I absolutely realize the GB is a rare bird and I am one of the few still flying behind one. I also realize the GB to LB upgrade includes new throttle body, better induction and a couple of other things...that said, I provided quotes which would automatically upgrade a GB to an LB...My GB is a "hot runner" but running it LOP keeps the CHT's below 380 degrees....

Great info! I may stop by my mechanic and have him dial in a bit more fuel flow after I fly it for a bit.....

As a follow-up to this original post, I had my fuel pump replaced today and problem solved. As a For What Its Worth note...this is the second time I have had work done on my fuel system (the first was to thoroughly clean it out a few years back). In both instances, the mechanic used the book to set fuel flow...in both instances, the book flow is a bit low and the mechanics had to dial up the fuel flow. If you are running a turbo in your Mooney with an intercooler, the correct fuel flow is about 21 gph...the book seems to have it set at 18 gph(based on pressure) which causes CHT's to climb very quickly. Of course, your own plane may be slightly different.

As the OP, I already said what I planned to do but wanted to hear thoughts from others....I appreciate ALL the thoughts and opinions expressed. I have 1300 hours in this airplane. As soon as I realized I had a fuel pump failure, I knew the airplane was grounded, unairworthy, unable to fly. There was NO WAY I was going to make any flight and I am fully prepared to bring my mechanic to me.....for those who think I would have made such a flight, thanks for your gentle "corrections" and concerns. I appreciate that there are people willing to say what needs to be said, irregardless of hurt feelings....this forum is great for gathering information and opinions. Maybe, a lower time pilot reading these posts would have considered a flight in similar circumstances and is now all the wiser. If so, it is worth putting this out there!!

well the guys that prefer to "cool" their turbo while idling may certainly do so. Those who prefer to run their engines 50 degrees ROP are welcome to do that too. I prefer to run LOP and shut down when I get to my hangar. The science from ADA in OK convinced me to do it that way. I suggest that a new turbo driver or a potential one do the research and ask the questions then make their own choice, These forums are great for gathering opinions but they are opinions and guaranteed, they will be diverse!

Yea....my answer, as well

OK...this am, I jumped in the plane to run over to my A&P (30 minute flight) to have him do a quick check of all lines for age/date stamp evaluation and replacement, if necessary. The engine grumbles and struggles to start...then starts but struggles to stay running...hmmm. Boost pump on and the engine smooths out...boost pump off, and the engine stumbles and dies. Fuel pressure drops to zero with the boost off. Pretty clear, my mechanical fuel pump has crapped out. I call my A&P to request an new pump be ordered which he agrees to do. My question to the group: do I risk flying the plane to the mechanic on the boost pump alone to replace the mechanical fuel pump or do I require him to drive to me with his tools (compensating him expenses, of course). I already know what I will do but wanted to get a sense from other Mooney drivers what they would do...

I haven't had any problems with it since install around the same time as you (part of the Mooney group buy) once I figured out that the ballasts need cooling but the electrical draw remains significant and one of the bulbs is now TU so I thought an LED would be the "bees knees"...

So I am wondering whether anyone knows if there is an LED bulb replacement for the Xevision system?

Unless you are a member of the forum...you can't view the topic....for my money, I have never believed that allowing the turbo to run on the ramp after landing does anything but heat it up. The turbo cools when descending from altitude. It will never be cooler (when running) than just before touchdown. Taxiing to parking simply runs it a bit hotter IMHO. Of course, the article may show that I have no idea what I am talking about...LOL

So after reading and considering all the posts plus doing some additional research, checking on overhaulers, etc etc....I think I will just keep flying the engine I have. Basically, everything is a "crap shoot"....factory reman, engine overhauler, it all boils down to the warranty if the engine has problems and everyone has a horror story to tell as well as good stories, as well. Since my engine is not making metal, does not use more than a quart every 9-10 hours, runs fine and doesn't need a major part replaced, I will keep flying it. I will put a bit extra in the reserve for a Merlyn when I do put an engine on and I will take my plane to my mechanic and have him go over all the lines and replace those that need replacing. Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions...extremely valuable info in the collective group!

LOL! I flew a C for 4 years before buying the K...great little airplane but it couldn't take me where the K does.

Ly-Con came back with a quote of $40k which is all engine/turbo parts (but not accessories) including port match and flow balance the cylinders....to "service new standards" for an LB engine with new factory jugs. I think I will get one more quote from Victors and then line them up against the factory reman cost of about $47k. Of course, I still have to add hoses and a motor mount overhaul plus R&R but the boutique engine rebuilder option is looking better and better..

my thoughts, exactly! The money is there in the reserve...I'm not getting any younger (and neither is my engine) so I figure I will take my chances on infant mortality over old age....

Yea....I wrestled with this one quite awhile. My plan was always to replace when a major problem popped up. Of course, a major problem could be a MAJOR problem depending upon when and where it occurs. I recently experienced a leaking fuel line while enroute over some very inhospitable terrain. Upon landing, the entire nose gear door was stained blue. Close call and there was no way to know it was leaking until it started leaking. That got me to thinking that this will likely be the last engine I replace so unless the replacement is a dud, I think I will just sit back and enjoy a new firewall forward airplane.