smccray

My A36 is more comfortable on long flights than my J was. We did NJ to Dallas with one very quick stop in TN then back in the plane to Dallas. 6.5 hrs flight time, 180 knots ground speed the whole way. When we landed I wasn't stiff at all. From my experience with my Mooney I was expecting to be a little more uncomfortable, but getting out of the plane was really no big deal. Has a cost though- fuel burn is higher in the Bo. The seating position is just different. Ultimately the preference between planes is just personal preference. Me? I would hesitate to make a 900 mi trip in the Mooney. In the Bo I would make that flight. 5 hrs is a long time to sit in any airplane, but there is a difference.

I’ll weigh in with a few thoughts. A Bravo isn’t a $125k airplane. It’s a also a lot of plane for a new pilot. I have no doubt the transition would be possible, but it’s not a small transition. K if you need/want a turbo. There’s good info here on 231/252. At your budget I would look for a good intercooled 231. J vs F is a good place to think. $125k would buy one of the nicest F models in the country. There are good thoughts above on a mod’d F being a great value- and no doubt it is. However- I look at a modified F like a collector car. Very cool, beautiful, and expensive, but also unique. There’s less liquidity as you have to find a buyer that sees the value. J values are up right now with very little inventory on the market. $125k should buy a very nice round window J. Look for one with a 2900 lb gross weight. Much easier to sell later.

It tells me 1) I need to keep learning about weather, and 2) I’m glad I’m in Texas...

I don’t think anyone would blame you for that decision. There are down sides to both choices. Garmin is limited, although they don’t signal their development plans. Bendix is expensive, but a more robust solution compared to the Garmin. my biggest concern with BK is what comes next. I believe that’s a real concern, although others may disagree. That’s what makes a market.

I agree. It’s very easy to fly in VS or IAS mode reducing the need to use control wheel steering. When I press the go around button and open the throttle, the autopilot stays fully coupled. I agree that it’s less than desirable to loose the ability to fly an ILS without a GPS signal. Let’s recognize the improvement that’s there- STEC 30 and 50 systems were sold for more than the price of the GFC500. The STEC 55x is available as well, albeit for a higher price tag. The GFC500 is a dramatic step forward in capability for the price in the retrofit market. It’s not perfect, but it’s an attractive option.

I don’t have the cost broken out. It was part of a very large project replacing all the avionics in the plane. GFC600 with trim and yaw. Equipment price is in the mid 20s. Servos were probably 3 days of work @ $95 an hour. The wiring was run as part of a new wiring harness for the whole plane. Hooking up the GFC600 to the G500 was probably about the same or less wiring work as connecting a KFC200. Digital autopilot didn’t require the GAD43E.

The same thread I linked to before included a post where someone mentions that the KFC 230 installation requires Bendix King to test the servos. The bendix rep didn’t respond to the post. I don’t have a clue if that’s correct or not. The GFC600 install I just had completed was pretty straight forward according to the tech that did the install. New brackets with new servos in the old locations. I don’t have a breakdown of the time to install just the autopilot, but I’m sure it was a time consuming process. Autopilot worked perfectly on the first flight.

G5 HSI is a wash. KI300 + KA310 (if it shows up ) is $4700 + install. Then you buy the GFC500 (assuming it's STC'd) and a second G5 for what- $10K plus install? Less the core value of the King system- what $3-4K? Hmmmmm

Control wheel steering lets the pilot take control of the airplane manually without disconnecting the autopilot. I didn't use it much with the KAP150 in my Mooney, and it remains to be seen how useful it is in my bonanza. It's advantageous where you're trying to establish a climb with an attitude based autopilot. Hit the CWS button, adjust the attitude for the desired climb rate, then release the button to reengage the autopilot.

Fair enough! That saves $1K from the price. It's unlikely that 1 AMU is a game changer for any particular product comparing the two. Edit- the fact that the KI310 is available and lets owners replace vacuum powered instruments with electric power is a big advantage. It should have happened years ago.

I suspect the king system offers control wheel steering. I believe the GFC500 includes envelope protection and the level button. There’s not a perfect system out there- pick your poison

KI300 plus a KA310 is $4700. G5 Certified is $2150. Cost of the AI is double. https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/g5-certified On paper the GFC 500 may not need a G5 HSI, but I can't imagine doing a GFC500 without it- regardless the total cost of the KFC230 is a little higher. In addition, there is core value in the King servos which would further reduce the cost of the Garmin install. There's greater capability to the King, but it's a more expensive solution. Nothing wrong with that. There is a Bendix King rep on Beechtalk. Our own @KSMooniac challenged the rep and he confirmed that the M20L was with the initial STC release, the rest of the long bodies will be 3 months later. I have to correct myself- looks like the J and the K are coming in the first round of releases which is fantastic. https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2262791#p2262791

The GPS requirement for a coupled approach is disappointing. Hopefully that's a limitation that goes away with further development of the system. Plus the cost of a KI300 and a KA310 converter which runs an additional $5K plus the cost of install. Still cheaper than a GFC 600. Total cost is probably a little higher than a Garmin autopilot, but it doesn't have the limitation requiring GPS which is an advantage. The KI300 is substantially more expensive than the G5 for attitude, and the best I can tell Bendix King doesn't have an HSI alternative- so you're likely to have one G5 in the system anyway. Add to that, you still have original servos in the airplane which are very expensive to replace, although it makes me happy as I have a set of KFC200 servos I need to sell. I don't believe a KI300 and a KFC230 will give many people any confidence that Bendix King can be relied on as a vendor. It certainly doesn't give me any confidence. How many people do you see installing a KSN 770? Who even knows what a KSN 770 is without google? Yes- I had to google the model number. What about a Bendix King glass panel? I don't have any confidence in spending money on Bendix King avionics. I bought a GFC 600. The fact that the KFC 230 wasn't available to me is irrelevant; I wouldn't have changed my purchase decision. I'll bet that the KFC230 will be a good autopilot, but I don't have any confidence in the long term support of the vendor. The first Mooney to be approved is the M20L, which doesn't make much sense. The rest of the long bodies are on the list for 2Q 2019. We all know Bendix King has done a poor job hitting their deadlines. Hopefully KFC230 is eventually an option for mid body Mooneys. but who knows when (or IF) that will happen.

I have a complete KCS55A system working when removed from an A36 bonanza.

Wow that's a good price! I'm betting it will be sold in 3.... 2.... 1....

I have no idea how you would come to that conclusion. If this is some sort of veiled global warming/climate change/??? statement then okay. That's a different conversation altogether.

??? The number of people who would argue with you on this point is ridiculously small.

Yeah- got that one wrong- i’ll try again I was unwilling to accept a financing contingency. Buyer had the right to walk away for any reason up to 5 days after the pre-buy. If he couldn’t get his financing in place within that time period the plane goes back on the market and the deal breaks up. I’m free to sell, he’s free to submit another offer to me, but he no longer had the plane under contract. Seller was also obligated to close on the plane after 30 days. If the deal couldn’t get done after 30 days, the deposit is mine and the deal breaks up.

On my latest purchase I wrote the contract such that I could back out for any reason. Seller paid airworthiness items, but if he didn't want to cover any airworthiness item he was on the hook for the cost of the inspection. When I sold my airplane I wouldn't accept that term when proposed by the buyer. It was a price issue- I priced the plane to sell- if you want a full-retail like term in the purchase contract, you get to pay full retail. In addition, I wasn't willing to accept any financing contingency in the contract. Told the buyer he had 5 days from the conclusion of the pre-buy (which was defined in the contract) after which the deposit became non-refundable. If the deal wasn’t closed within 30 days the contract was canceled and I kept the deposit. I'm not going to tie the plane up in a contract that gives a buyer full rights to walk away without some penalty. A real buyer won't have any problem with that type of term either- particularly on a $100K airplane.

Place the deposit into escrow. If that doesn't make the seller comfortable then move on. $500 is crazy- If I were the seller I would be looking for $5000. It's not about the value of the plane, but the representations you're making as a buyer.

30 year old engine and a panel without GPS with a 6 pack. I wouldn’t call it is good deal- I would say it’s priced right. It will sell at asking.

I have a KI 256 P/N 060-0017-01 that was working when removed from my A36. It drove a KFC 200 if it matters. Date on the side of the instrument is March 27 2017. Looks like mods 1-11- happy to share a photo of the label. I need to sell it.

The 43 is different than the 43E. The 43 will integrate the legacy equipment, but it doesn’t provide an attitude signal to the autopilot.

GAD43E will provide attitude info to the king autopilot. Cost is $5k plus install <or> Spend $8k plus install for the GFC500, sell the old king autopilot parts and get a whole new system... and one less box in the panel.

The GFC500 is an odd combination with the G500. Experimental autopilot with the certified panel. The good news with that combination is that it does use the heading and course data from the G500 TXI or the navigator, so that tracks properly. It also carries over the baro imput on the G500 to the G5. It’s really a nice setup. That said- I would still wait on a G500txi on a Mooney.