jetdriven

Hey all. I am gathering opinions on what to do. We have a standard 6 pack panel in our 1977 201, and the turn coordinator bearings are shot. The vacuum AI is a little suspect too, perhaps less so since I turned the vacuum up. AC 91-75 from your friendly FAA says they now recommend replacing the turn coordinator with a second attitude indicator and a slip/skid ball. They are expensive, however. So what would you do, overhaul or replace the turn coordinator, Replace it with a used AI? Or something else?

Mooney basically "foreclosed" upon themselves and in the process, shed all their debt. Now they are called "Mooney Aviation Company". So they are in a lot better shape than before. Also, when I toured the factory in 2001, was shocked at the fact they didnt outsource anything. They built their own wiring harnesses, side panels, headliners, engine mounts, everything. There was a lot of labor in those planes, when they said "hand-built ferrari of the sky" thats no kidding. But expensive to build.

Nope. I fly over oceans for a living in jets, but for the Mooney, I would just ditch it and buy a newer one.

With training and even more so, proficiency and recency, IFR with no autopilot is not such a big deal. Especially in this plane with its heavy ailerons. This plane flies like a cabin class twin in cruise. However, without a standby attitude indicator on a second power source, you are betting your life on a 250$ vacuum pump. Thats the real hazard here.

They could have iced up and stalled, vacuum system failure, or gyro failure. Seeing as how they were instrument rated, spatial disorientation may be unlikely without equipment failure.

Quote: DaV8or

Quote: DaV8or What you're missing is, the 201 kit isn't certified and therefore does not carry the liability. Also there is a lot more mark up in parts. Basically you get a quantity discount for buying a whole airplane's worth of parts at once. The Ravin 500 kit I linked above, sells for around $89,000 and it's estimated completed price is about $170,000 to $190,000. You wouldn't say that the Piper Comanche is any more or any less complex than a 201 would you?

Quote: allsmiles We've been over this before. Mooney didn't stop making the 201, rather, people stopped buying the 201. The cost to build a 201 or an Ovation is the same. Pretty much the only difference in cost is the engine and prop and as a percentage of overall cost, the difference is minimal. Buyers with that kind of money chose bigger and faster almost every time. Same goes on over at Cirrus. If it weren't for a few flight schools, the SR-20 would be dead too. The SR-20 is a tiny, tiny percentage of their annual production. We have to all face it, the M20 airframe is outdated and not viable for the new airplane market. It cost way too much to build, has an uncompetitive cabin and is not in step with current aviation trends. Most of all, Mooney needs to understand this. The money is not there to build an all new airframe or to majorly revise the M20, so we have to let go the dream of future aircraft production at Mooney in the forseeable future. The focus needs to be on supporting the existing fleet. Maybe in time, after Mooney becomes a financially viable company again, they could venture out into the world of aircraft production, but for now, the dream of a brand new M20J priced at $200,000 is just that... a dream. Time to wake up and get to work on those parts.

Quote: GeorgePerry A typically a gear up landing with only a sudden stop inspection reduces the plane's value by 10 to 20%, and that's when the repairs are done by a reputable MSC and Engine shop. With all the "baggage" this particular Eagle has it's asking price is right at "no damage" Vref pricing. Which IMHO is too high. What it really needs is a Factory New IO-55G ($40k) either before or after the eventual sale. It would also be nice if the seller could preemptively have a full PPO done by a MSC that substantiates the airframe repairs were done correctly. If the Eagle remains unsold for a while I expect the seller to lower the price. Although it wouldn't surprise me if a dentist out there has $150K burning a hole in his or her pocket and doesn't do the homework on this particular airframe. (no offense to dentists)

That aircraft was turbocharged. But still, an O2 malfunction at 17,000' could be a problem. Or so could VFR into IMC. Loooking at the flightaware trace, and the resulting crash, it was pretty sudden, and vertical. Bless their souls.

Quote: DaV8or I totally agree with this idea. When I floated the idea a while back, I was told that the M20 airframe is too complex and difficult to build for the average person. I believe that as it is now, that is true. I think the way to go would be to re-engineer the M20J so that it can be built by an average person. This may mean use of composites for things like the the wing spar and fuselage. Maintain the basic flight characterisics, shape and form, but change the way it is built. Maybe much like the Ravin 500, which is a kit Piper Comanche. It could have a choice of engines, O-360, IO-360, TNIO-360, IO-390 and maybe the Delta Hawk diesel. They could also offer the Rocket conversions too. Manual or electric gear and flaps, or even fixed gear and tail dragger options. Any number of things you could do once you get away from the type certificate. In my mind, this is the only way the world will ever see brand new M20Js again. "Also, I disagree with the airframe isn't competitive arguement. Find another aircraft the gives the same performance as the Mooney, it's faster on less fuel than the Cirrus. At the same altitude it's even competive with the too fast for 23 certification Lancair." Here I really have to disagree. It may come as a shock, but people buy airplanes on criteria other than just speed and fuel efficiency. The Columbia/Corvalis and Cirrus come close in speed and efficiency, but offer more in comfort and design. They are also easier to build and so more profitable. The BRS in the Cirrus and fixed gear can not be under estimated in terms of sales. The proof is in the sales. Buyers voted with their pocketbook. Everyone shopping for a new airplane in the last ten years was well aware of the Mooney and what it could do, but most chose otherwise.

Quote: Barry One of the very biggest problems to production of aircraft at reasonable cost is the cost of insurance for each and every airframe built. I was already flying when the infamous Cessna crash occurred that caused the increase in aircraft to almost triple in price. The entire aircraft was poorly maintained. On it's last flight a mechanical failure of a seat latch on this Cessna caused the death of several people and the survivors and relatives of the deceased received TEN'S OF MILLIONS in compensation. This was the first time that compensation of that magnitude had ever been given out. Within a year, the cost of a Warrior increased from ~$40K to ~$140K ... most of that increase in the cost of insurance on each and every airframe produced. Nowdays, everything that touch’s an aircraft will receive a high level of scrutiny in a crash. Each item and every individual bolting that item on an aircraft needs to have expensive insurance to protect their ass. Our government was attempting to kill the small plane GA back in the '70's. The FAA was hard at work "making flying safer". It seemed that every year one had to bold another couple thousand dollars of equipment on the plane to be allowed to fly in a certain area. Maintenance was very carefully scrutinized and mechanics were heavly fined if they were determined to be at fault. If you have the history of over 35 years of flying to look upon, it is quite evident that this whole thing that we are presently experiencing is a planned event. NOTHING in the actions of government or politics is a mistake. The rising cost of automobiles, aircraft, housing, food, clothing ... all of this raises tax revenues and allows government to expand. The FAA will never be controlled by government because it is doing exactly what the government wants it to do. Eliminate individuals flying their own airplanes and increase tax revenues. If you want to see where the US is headed you only need look at Europe. The US has been following in the footsteps of the European model for the last 30 years.

Mooney would have to list the 201 at 300-400K to hope to break even. Then many people could still buy an older one and fix it up for far less. Look at Beech, a Baron is a million $. A 182 is 400K. Cessna was considering building 414s again in the 90s, they were told they would have to be 1.5 million$. Its just the cost of building one, I suppose. Small planes like this are primarily a middle class or upper-middle-class toy. The middle class is shrinking, and depite all the finger pointing, will continue to do so. The super-wealthy are getting a larger share, and they dont mess with singles, they buy turbines.

Dont forget a 1984 model hasnt much more to offer than a runout 1978 model except those seatbacks, and factor in the idea you are paying an extra ten grand for them.

Quote: N4352H Your old stuff can be reskinned and it will just be a pain in the butt....unless you really luck out. It's hard to get it right w/o factory jigs. On non control surfaces, maybe bondo filler (knowing it will be removed at next paint). Try the salvage market. It usually turns up empty and if somebody has control surfaces, they know what they are worth.

i can go with a proper polyester aircraft grade filler on the wings, or fuselage, but not on the control surfaces. Besides, they are dead flat, and would be almost impossible to fill wthout noticing.

Quote: aerobat95 What needs to happen is Mooney needs to start making planes again.....I just dont understand how a company that makes such an awesome product can't stay in business.....Cessna and Piper make nice planes and all but nothing like a Mooney....Its heartbreaking.

Quote: mikefox We also sent the computer to Century - they upgraded it for a lot of money but didn't find any specific problem. The pitch oscillation continued. So we changed the attitude indicator. It went away for a while but came back. We then re-wired everything, with new harnesses. Still a problem. Finally changed the AI again, and the problem disappeared - and the techs found broken slip rings inside the AI. Now the gremlin is back with us. So it is off to the instrument shop again!

Quote: N4352H Your old stuff can be reskinned and it will just be a pain in the butt....unless you really luck out. It's hard to get it right w/o factory jigs. On non control surfaces, maybe bondo filler (knowing it will be removed at next paint). Try the salvage market. It usually turns up empty and if somebody has control surfaces, they know what they are worth.

Quote: RJBrown Sure lets talk politics! It is a big part of the environment we fly in. After 11 posts that were on point someone got their panties in a twist. It is obvious that the person taking offence is for Obama. He is a "liberal" I have seen that liberals are the first to try and curb "free speech" when it disagrees with the hallowed liberal view. If a liberal can't argue a point they attack the other person. Don't be such a hypocrite. Lets talk airplanes Boeing Dreamliners to be exact. Some liberal progressive union pigeon in the Obama administration is trying to send jobs to China instead of North Carolina. That's Obamanomics!! The IDIOT is trying to kill America and you are to stupid to see it. Have I offended you yet? Good get off your high horse and quit being such a whiner. I try to keep my opinions neutral in an attempt to be polite. But vasco pulling his smug hypocritical left wing Bull, or should I say Donkey, $#1^ is too much. The comment about Obamanomics was just a way to frame the factors affecting the environment we fly in. I've owned a small business 30 years as of yesterday June first and I understand the reference. Do you understand the absurdity of borrowing you way out of debt? Spending your way to solvency? Obama acts as if he doesn't.

5600 hours you deduct 2-3k. not a big deal really.

Quote: Kwixdraw I need a picture on the cooling baffle that mounts the air filter for a 201. Mine was broken when I bought the aircraft and the broken part was tossed and smoothed out. I'm rebuilding the baffles and airbox and need to see how this originally fit. Any help out there?

Quote: ELT Unfortunately, you probably will want both. I use a 496 for a moving map that works 99% of the time. The iPad with Bad Elf ( you really need a waas gps in the iPad) has neat moving map presentation on both low altitude and sectional charts. However, on a flight yesterday the 496 lost gps for 5 seconds and the iPad gps was down much longer. The iPad is a very good paper chart replacement and with the Bad ELF a good VFR situational awareness tool. On the same flight over eastern NC the 3G was less than 50% working at 6,000 msl. The iPad is good but not a replacement for even a portable aviation GPS. It is another tool for your tool box.

Quote: moodychief She has already laid out the specs that it can't fly any slower than what we have and cost no more to fly or maintain. That leads me to believe she wants me to get a bigger and faster Mooney.

Quote: fantom As I posted earlier, those are my usual settings......100 ROP; 20-30 LOP. IIRC, the EGT riase LOP is about 50F. Not a big concern, but hotter isn't better. And yes CHT is peak ICP is lower, which is much better. Scott, are you using the 14.9 factor, to come up with power%?