RJBrown

The problem I alluded to in my first post was “following the factory POH” the pilot operating instructions were written by the sales department. All they cared about was getting 200 knots/231 miles an hour. Operated by the book most engines burned out by 1200 hours. What we, as a community of 231 drivers, have learned about operating the GB/LB engines could have saved Mooney from the black eye they got. Operated conservatively they can be made to last. A waste gate, an intercooler and an engine monitor make up for 80% + of the improvements the 252 got. Only shortcoming is the unequal intake runners. Any engine sent back to Continental comes back as a LB. ‘but, the 252 is everything the K should have been. It is the Best, most efficient, airplane Mooney ever built. but, just like politics, POWER CORRUPTS, I Loved my Rocket. It truly corrupted me for anything less.

People like this one do a real service to buyers of 231s. Their uninformed posturing scares people off and pushes down prices. A J may be the best N/A airplane ever built but it is a downright dog compared to a 231. I’ve owned both. Before I bought a 231 I flew N9136N a near new 1992 MSE. First flew her in July of 1993 I loved flying that plane. I rented it about 20 times over the next year. After flying high time Cessnas to learn how to fly that 18 month old MSE was the greatest airplane I’d ever flown. Until I flew a 231. I lived in Denver with MEAs of 16600’ just 15 miles to my west. The difference in safety and dispatch reliability is night and day. by the way that 231 in Dothan is the most expensive 231 I’ve ever seen. Engine beyond TBO, original panel with a bad KNS80, paint and interior. No wastegate or intercooler. If money is no object and you want a blank canvas you could dump another hundred grand into it tomorrow.

I bought a stone stock 1980 231 with a GB in 1994 with 1077 hours. like everyone else I followed the POH from Mooney and the engine only lasted just short of 1200 hours. I had mine converted to a Rocket 305 and flew it another 1000 hours trouble free. LOVED that airplane. ‘At the time all the 231s were getting about 1200 hours. Any 231 without wastegate and intercooler needs one. Deduct the price of the upgrade from book. Also consider it a 1200 hour motor without them both. With both wastegate and intercooler And a good multi probe engine monitor they are great airplanes. I bought a 1990 MSE (201) after having the 231/Rocket. I hated that airplane. Every time I flew it all I could think of is what it could not do. It could barely struggle to 17000’ and could not maintain the MEA into Denver over Larks intersection. sold it to a flat lander in Texas. I want another Rocket but could settle for a properly equipped 231 or 252.

Continental supplied the factory reman engine originally supplied to Rocket engineering and installed in my M20-K.. At 88 hours the six bolts holding the alternator drive gear came loose. The original bend tabs were flat, they had never been bent up against the bolt heads. This destroyed the alternator and sent foreign material into the engine. The flight was coincidently enroute to Spokane where Rocket is so no ferry was required. Continental supplied all cost to install a zero time factory reman. this shop should pay all costs. I would expect legal fees in a negligence case. Judge makes this decision. ANY SHOP THAT FIGHTS THIS IS EITHER BROKE OR CROOKED. There should be a “completed products” portion to their business insurance. Has their insurance been contacted. A “real business will have insurance” If they have no insurance you don’t have much chance to collect unless you can attach property. I would ask my attorneys to file a notice of lis pendis against any real or personal property owned by the shop or its owner. can’t get blood from a turnip. I was sued in a real estate deal. We counter sued and prevailed. I had ask my attorney to file a notice of lis pendis against a specific piece of property owned by the plaintiff. He failed to follow my direction about the notice. Legal fees were awarded to us. When the property in question was sold following plaintiff’s bankruptcy I did not get paid. We were treated as an unsecured creditor. Had the notice been filed properly we would have been first in line. in the end I received only the funds that were escrowed at closing. The lawyer received nothing from me because he failed to follow my request about the notice. Find the assets now before the court case. Without assets all you are doing is feeding your attorney.

Test with an inductive ammeter. they clamp over the wire to or from the ammeter or master switch. compare numbers. Fluke sells good electrical test equipment.

A fast Mooney is a Rocket. Flight plan 200kts/20 gallons per hour at 12k, faster higher. A cost effective turbine is a Jet-Prop. To really use a turbine you need pressurization. Rocket engineering just does it better.

I have about 1000 hours in a Rocket. Rockets outperform on less fuel. Generally equipped the same and with similar times they cost less. useful at 3200# gross is usually about 1000, similarly equipped Bravo has slightly less useful at a higher gross of 3368. Has a Continental TSIO520NB with a lower TBO though than theTLS/BRAVO Lycoming and smaller back seat. Runs well lean of peak, I’m told. My Rocket experience was pre 2003 and Gami’s were not a thing yet. They climbs better with more HP (305) and less weight. I prefer the Rocket but there are currently none on the market. The cruise 73% is 200kts at 12000’ and faster higher 238kts at 24,000’ I rented a MSE for initial Mooney experience. With similar times and IFR as you I bought a stock 231 flew it for 100 hours before converting it to a Rocket. After the Rocket I hated the MSE I bought for retirement (see my icon) Sold it, still hoping to get another Rocket. Currently getting my Mooney fix in a 201 a friend stores in my hangar.

From the kitchen island, shot while reading this thread.

Seems like the issue Rocket had. The gross weight increase to 3200# was take off weight. The landing weight was still limited to 2900#. The Rocket has the same basic airframe as, but more power than the TLS that has a take off weight of 3368# and a landing weight of 3200#. With the additional power a Rocket or a TLS “could” fly safely at 3600# and tanked for long distance delivery many have.

One time my wife had closed her leather coat belt/strap in the door. We hit some turbulence and the belt pulled out far enough to start slapping the side of the fuselage. Sounded like a real emergency. We did not want to land 30 minutes into a 3 hour flight and over Colorado mountains. Opened door and pulled in leather strap. Closed door as listed above. Easy for passenger to close door while cross controlled. Would not bother to close if it were to come open solo. opening the door prior to an emergency landing is a good idea, door trails safely with no adverse affect. Would hate to be stuck in after surviving the landing.

Yesterday was really cold here in Queen Creek Arizona. had an almost 45 minute frost delay at the golf course. 35 degrees, fortunately it got above 70 later.

Had this happen to me at 22,000 over Pueblo/Colorado Springs late one night. Yes induction icing can happen to a 231. Lost power and was unable to maintain altitude. I was heading to Centennial (APA) and was essentially on the ILS to 35R. Center tried to direct me towards DEN and I turned them down. Ask for and got my decent into APA 50 miles out. Ice melted and I had a normal approach once low enough. Later read a story in Flying about a 231 that had induction icing crossing the North Atlantic. He had to stay under 500’ over the ocean to keep the ice melted. Induction ice in very rare conditions is a quirk built in to the 231. If conditions are right it will ice. All you can do is avoid those conditions by changing altitude. Alternate air does not help.

As a new pilot in 1993 I got checked out in a almost new MSE at Denver’s front range airport. (Now KCFO) Back then they had a 2500’ 35/17 runway near the west edge of the airport. That runway was removed once DIA opened. At an elevation of 5500’ that was a pretty short runway. That is the runway I was taught to land a Mooney on. Approach speed was everything. Most people get sloppy and fly 90 knot approaches. Mooneys are EASY to land if you use correct airspeeds. Until I had the approach numbers nailed every time I couldn’t rent that plane solo. Thanks to that CFI my introduction to Mooneys was all about landing correctly.

The onboard system as the factory made it is very inefficient. It uses way too much oxygen. I used the floating ball regulator to feed an oxymizer cannulas. With a battery powered oximeter on your finger to double check for safety. In addition to the on board system I always carried a portable Sky-Ox system for back up. I made up adapters to allow use of both medical E type bottles and regular welding bottles. The Sky-Ox bottle had to be sent in to be filled and I was responsible to keep it in date. Medical E and welding bottles are exchange for full, no wait. I was caught in Dallas on a Sunday unable to refill once. Really limits your choices. when flying high solo I always had a back up set up and ready to go on the passenger seat. read this https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/38638

I would pull the bottom panel and see for sure what I had. I still think it will be electric. then I read your post. It must be one of the last of the vacuum ones. descent from high altitudes is a math problem. When high but not IFR I would pull 1 inch per minute and figure descent up against vne if possible. As you get lower the descent rate goes up to maintain the same speed through the thicker air. This way you stay fast but regain the energy used to climb. If IFR you are stuck with what center gives you while still powering down slow.

“I hope I never need”? I don’t understand your statement. The speed brakes are a wonderful addition to your plane and are very useful. I use them on almost every cross country flight. My Rocket could climb to 24k at 1500fpm. Without speed brakes I could only descend at 500 fpm and could not always comply with center instructions. With speed brakes there were no problems getting down. Coming across the front range where MEAs exceed 16,000’ to land at Centennial airport south of Denver is much easier and safer with speed brakes. I can remember being slam dunked by center without speed brakes, not fun. On the ILS too high and still pushing VNE. Had to call a missed approach and go around just to get slowed down.

picture #1 is of a 1980 M-20K with speed brakes deployed. They were installed by Mod Works in the early 90s. pictures #2 & 3 are of a 1988 M-20J in my hangar. They are exactly like the ones in picture 1 and are the most common used on your plane. They are fully electric. An electric motor runs them up and down. If they lose electrical signal (like master switch turned off) a spring pulls them down immediately. They are held in by the 18 screws seen from the top. They are removed through the cover on the bottom. If they are not operating properly they can be removed and sent in to Precise Flight for repair. I was told by them that with covers on and wiring secure the airplane can still be flown. When new one side was returned for warranty repairs. part of the certification involved making sure that if only one were deployed the handling characteristics were not negatively affected. I have tested that premise. I found very little difference in how the plane handled. Speed brakes are not a go no-go item. At low speed/high angle of attack they make very little difference. Take off performance is not significantly degraded with them up. I left them up through landing they make the plane feel more solid and reduce the Mooney “float” New style introduced in 2000 are the currently sold product pictured in the fourth picture. They have a rounded profile making them easy to tell the difference from the earlier style.

From APA I always get the DENVER 6 departure which is vectors to assigned route. From the west or NW I usually get the TOMSN arrival that then gets morphed into radar vectors. Same for SW I am assigned LARKS but once on LARKS I end up with radar vectors. Same with Quail out of the SE. They alway assign a STAR but I never stay on it long. All the STARs around here are set up to land at DEN, most going to the Falcon VOR. To keep me away from DEN traffic they all become Radar Vectors pretty early. LARKS gets pretty annoying when they slam dunk you way late. Center keeps you up high on LARKS. Once handed off to approach you get the slam dunk. I have been as high as 12,000 as late as over CASSI, the NDB on the 35R ILS , before given a decent.

Missiles are near Ovation speeds. If you consider "near" to include faster. From a value standpoint the Rocket/Missile stand out. They are more capable than the similar factory offering. I had a Rocket for almost 10 years. 8 years after selling it I bought the J in my picture. For my type of flying it was a disappointing mistake. I sold it last fall. I will buy another Rocket once my home and hanger are built. I am moving to Arizona this Saturday to start my retirement. I will be building on Pegasus airpark. (5AZ3) The J was effectivly out of climb at 17,000 while the Rocket was still climbing at 1500fpm at 26,000. Normally aspirated aircraft simply dont have the performance reserve to fly safely over the mountains.

I to would love an Aerostar. A solid upgrade. Not like paying more to go slower in a Baron. Beautiful plane, congrats.

KBFI is Boeing Field. KBJC was Jefferson County now Rocky Mountain Metro. They are only 871 nautical miles apart.

Greed and an inept government. As for the batteries. We get junk batteries because the battery companies can't change to improved versions of them without recertification. The rules meant to guarantee good parts only guarantees outdated technology and shoddy parts.

And in a nutshell that is what is wrong with general aviation today a 10 cent part for $44.50!!!!

SEM makes paint specifically for plastic interior panels. It is the best product for this use.

Did I ever tell the story about the time I walked past a Baron in my Rocket? It was his first flight outside the area around APA. Both of us has chosen that day to fly down to Santa Fe for lunch. He went IFR at 10,000' while I was VFR at 10,500. I was on flight following that day. As I tuned to Pueblo approach I heard him go back to center. Shortly after I was back with center he started calling traffic 12 O'clock 500 ft low and closing. I thought nothing of it as I passed and went on to Santa Fe. I saw the Baron taxi up to parking as our shuttle left for downtown. After lunch when we got back to the airport the girls went in to use the facilities and I went out to pre flight. The Baron was parked right next to me. The pilot struck up a conversation. Seems it was the first flight in his big new fast twin and he was crushed and had to find out what had passed him. As center started to point out the Mooney about to pass he had sped up trying to stay ahead, I innocently walked on by. He was amazed at my speed and efficiency. I know there are reasons besides speed for flying a twin and I hope you enjoy your new steed. But this is a Mooney site and I couldn't resist a poke as you fly off into your future. With the Colemill conversion I bet I would not have closed so easily if you were the Baron ahead. Enjoy, Randy