FoxMike

Randy, I have been thru MMVR on several occasions. The airport is ok but as was mentioned expensive. I would suggest the Empiro Hotel or Holiday Inn Boca Del Rio for a place to stay (neither is cheap). Hard to guess the airport fees but $200 in and out should do it. You might consider stopping in Villa Hermosa. Either place will be money pit and a bit of a hassle. Last time I stopped in Villa Hermosa they brought a drug dog out to sniff the baggage and plane. I have not been to Belize but I think the earlier post is pretty accurate. After you get out of the airplane at your destination you be glad you did the trip by Mooney.

Operating cost is dependent on pilot habits. I have been operating turbo airplanes for 40 years or so. If you operate them like the salesman suggests it will cost a lot. If you can restrain yourself ( operate at 70-75%) the added cost of a blower is nominal. The wet head of the Bravo is one of the best ideas Lycoming ever came up with. Lycoming learned many years ago that Duke engines would not last longer than one cross country as the pilots demanded high power at high altitude. High power = lots of rejected heat. At low altitude the mass flow (cooling air) over the engine carries that rejected heat away. At high altitude mass flow of the cooling air flow is much less thus more heat retained by the engine. Result is engine parts wear faster. As you might remember from ground school 30% of the BTU's your engine produces turn the prop, the rest (70%) go out the exhaust or through the cylinder head. If you keep the power at a reasonable level the amount of rejected heat will be low enough the cooling air flow will be able to carry the heat away. The down side to the turbo is that cooling air requirements results in more drag (bigger inlet area required). Also at low altitude the blower runs slow which increases back pressure in exhaust system. You then have to burn more fuel to get the same power. Mooney has done a reasonably good job of designing their turbo engine cowls to meet the demands of altitude flying. If you just forget what the salesman told you everything will be OK.

Newbie, I have flown that area of the country in my Bravo and think if your trips are "must make" you will be happier with a Turbo and TKS. No doubt that most of the time the Ovation will be good transportation but 15-16K is not always enough. Maybe you could find an Ovation with TKS to give the margin you need but your proposed route is rough and wet. I would get as much performance as possible.

Bill, I had the counterweights installed at a shop near Tulsa. They balance the crank by switching the counterweights around to improve the balance. I was not there so I am going on verbal description given. I also did a dynamic balance on the prop. after 50 hours to give the bearings a chance to wear a little.

Bill I bought a hose kit from PHT about a year and half ago. As I recall it was about 3K. I also put in new Lord mounts. I think those were around 1K. Some price shopping might be in order. I also spent extra to have the new crank carefully balanced. Sure makes a smooth engine. I sure hated to tear up a perfectly good engine to comply with 569A. Good Luck! Walt

Having planned several trips with a group through Latin America, let me make a few suggestions. The first hurdle is make sure that your insurance includes Latin America and Mexico in your territorial limits. My policy covers me in these areas but I know of policies that do not. You will be renewing your policy some time in the next year so make sure you get coverage. It is true that you can buy a Mexico policy but it is just an extra expense ($100.00). Guatemala requires that you have insurance and will want to look at the policy when you arrive. Some of you know that Carnival (Mardi Gras) is a popular holiday in Mexico. I think It starts around March 1st next year. It used to be that Vera Cruz and Mazatlan were the big places to celebrate. In the last decade more cities have gotten into the celebration. I attended Carnival in Vera Cruz one year. I had reserved a room about 6 months in advance and even then had trouble finding one. Some of you will want to travel through Vera Cruz. It is a good place for an overnight if you can find a room. I do not know how much in advance of official start of the festivities the city fills up. Some were wondering about night flying in Mexico. You can fly at night if you are on an instrument flight plan. Not a great idea however as cab drivers seldom hang around smaller airports after dark and overtime charges for airport workers are surprising large. Since you have a lot of time to get prepared you might spend sometime looking at the new ICAO flight plan and learn the proper coding. This is not a real big deal but something you ought to be familiar with. MAPA LOG had a good article on the subject several months ago. Also, if you have not enrolled in EAPIS you need to get a password and setup an account. To get started just "google" EAPIS. Someone asked about routes. To stay over lower ground head for Tapachula, Mx (MMTP) . It is not a bad place for an overnight. Mexico has lots of fees. You normally are charged for landing $7.00US. You may also be charged a wing tax which is added to your fuel bill. The size of the fee is based on wing span. This is levied by some airports not others. On international legs (when you leave the country) you are usually are charged a head tax for each person in the airplane. Cost is $20-25US. Tourist cards are usually $25.00US. The big one is the multi entry authorization which is about $50.00. You would think with a name like that it would be good for use on the way home but you would be wrong. Plan to buy one each direction. Several years ago I watched Jack McCormick (Baja Pilots) argue the point with the Airport Comandante in MMTP. No contest we paid the fee. Plan on about an hour for the clerk at any AOE to get the paperwork completed, sent to Mexico City and their authorization to get back. BTW you will need a copy of your insurance so the multi entry can be completed. If you have not traveled Mexico do not be entirely put off by all of this. Once all the fees are paid there are a lot of places to go and things to do. You might spend some search time on the internet discovering some things you would want to do. Another option is to overfly Mexico. I have done it leaving McAllen, TX and flying the airways to Guatemala City. Following the airways it was 6 hours. I was flying a T210 with tip tanks. My wingman was flying a 231 and added 60+ gals when we got there. On the last leg we were assigned 16K so O2 was necessary. One last comment, it was mentioned that Mexico has an agreement that Guatemala about Technical Stops for Guatemalan pilots. This may be true but I doubt they would extend to US pilots. According to ICAO treaties any pilot should be allowed to stop for fuel, or weather/mechanical problems without incurring charges. I have been flying in Mx. for 30 years and have never seen this happen. I have had other countries allow me to stop overnight using my pilots license to enter the country but not Mexico. My experience has been as soon as you land they close your flight plan and you are then subject to fees. I do not mean to throw a bucket of cold water but better to know in advance what to expect. In spite of the likely hassle in Mexico the trip will be worth the effort. Guatemala has a lot to offer. I have been there 4 or 5 times and am tempted to do it again.

Piloto, The big benefit to the Bravo conversion comes at altitude. The wet head forces oil around the exhaust valve guide ( which is the hot section of a piston engine). The oil picks up some of the rejected heat. My overhauler thinks it is the best thing that Lycoming thought up. My Bravo is a 99 so the engine was done at the factory. The field conversions I think require new cylinders which means a top. The plumbing is a bit more complicated than you would think so the labor is going to be more than you might think. If you are going to have a TLS I would sure go for the conversion. I have been happy with mine for the 1000+ hours I have flown it. Be sure the crankshaft serial number does not appear on SB 569A. Cranks are 13K or more. With the wet head the engine will likely make TBO without a top.

Crazy Idea may not be so crazy. Back in 1995 a group of us were headed to Costa Rica for a house warming of a home that a friend had just built in Flamingo Beach. We flew into Chetumal, MX where they were having a air show. We met a group of folks from the Guatemalan Aero Club who invited us to visit them the next year. We took them up on the offer and were very glad we did. We used the airplanes to travel from Guatemala City to Tikal and Rio Dulce. We chartered a bus (Clark tours) to show us the rest of the country. We were a group of about 20. I have been back 4 or 5 times since. A couple of days in La Antigua is superb. Paperwork associated with a trip like this is a hassle but the trip makes it worth it. Someone with good organizational skills needs to step foreword. Divers might want to head over to Roatan for some first rate diving afterwards.

I had an E model which I had Laser do the extended baggage area. Worked pretty well but you had to be careful how much you put in that area. The step had to be removed and electronics mounted in the area needed to be moved. Back many years ago when I did this, airplanes did not have the electronics that they do now. Jose is right you lose the fuselage side access panel but you gain an extra baggage door. There are advantage and disadvantages to everything.

Here is my 2 cents on TKS. I have a factory installed system on my Bravo which I have owned for 9 years. I agree with all the facts Jose mentions but have a little different opinion. TKS requires anticipation of ice so before you leave the hangar you estimate your fluid needs. I seldom carry more than a couple of gallons. You need to prime the system every couple of weeks or so otherwise it does take a long time for the fluid to flow. If you do that you will have a dependable system that will keep the ice off the airplane. The big question is how bad do you need deice equipment? Most of the time you can do OK with a pitot heater. Occasionally, the ice builds and you greatly wish you had TKS. On rare occasions you get in a big mess and you swear you are going to get the system no matter what it costs. The TKS will do the job but it is surprising how little you use it. I have had several experiences where I really needed it but those were few and far between in the 1200hrs I have flown the Bravo. My previous two airplanes had boots. I seldom needed them but was always glad to have them. If you want the highest level of dispatch reliability the TKS is probably a toy you should have. If you really do not like flying in a mess you are probably can do just as well with just a pitot heater.

I travel to Columbus at least annually. I used to use Lane (CMH) as I established a business relationship with them many years ago when I went to school in Columbus. Things have changed at CMH quite a bit. I have been using OSU for the past 6 or 7 years. Prices are not much less than CMH but I think service (both air and ground) to the smaller airplanes is better.

GaryP, The only thing I would suggest to you is to have someone check the crankshaft serial number. The crank should not be listed in SB 569A but if it is you will need to comply with the bulletin. I have owned a Bravo for 9 years and enjoy traveling with it. Last year flew all the way around the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean. Good Luck!

Years ago when Mooney started selling them the avionics folks (RCA I think) were bad mouthing them. The antenna was badly compromised to make it fit in the wing.

Larryb, I put an Airtex interior in my first Mooney many years ago. The materials wore well for the 5 years I owned it after I did the interior. The seats, carpet and sidewalls fit well and doing the install was not too difficult. These days Airtex should furnish burn certificate with the materials. I did all the work myself. I did about 25 years ago so consider that my experience was quite a while ago. Good Luck.

chrisk, I have no idea what you envision your airplane's mission to be but here is my experience. I owned an E model and equipped it with a RayJay. It worked ok but was not the best. I live in the Rockies so I operate higher than many. The induction system of the RayJay was not good nor was the oil cooling. I did a huge project and redesigned the induction system and moved and changed to a larger oil cooler. I had good results and the local FSDO gave me a one time STC. About then the 231 was flying. After riding in the 231 I decided what I had was ok but Lo Presti had a better product. If it were my decision I would go for the 231. My wingman owns one and likes it. He has had very little trouble during his +/- 20 years of ownership. I would say the biggest drawback to turbos is pushing the throttle too hard. The 231 is not as good in grass as an F so if you live on a grass strip you should consider that. If you operate either on grass you need to donuts often. BTW I currently have an M model. Good luck in your decision. Walt

N201MKT, Piloto's post reminded me of another thing to keep in mind. Hot water in many showers is heated electrically. They have earned the name "suicide showers". Cold showers are not a bad idea.

N201MKTurbo, I will second all that Paul has said. I have been to Costa Rica in small airplanes (mostly Mooney) several times and have traveled most of Latin America. Last year I overflew Costa Rica as the parking fees were outrageous. All the countries in Latin America (not Mexico) are requiring that you request permission for overflight or landing. Almost all will furnish you a permit number when they approve your flight (by email). You need to start this process a week before you leave. A Jepp trip kit will provide all the details. I used to enjoy traveling in Latin America but the hassle and fees has worn me down. A trip like this while challenging and rewarding is 40% flying and 60% paperwork. Don't forget to stop in Tapachula, Mex. on the way home and take lots of cash. Walt

Jeev, At 15K and 27/2350 (15gph) 72% power the IAS is144K and a TAS of 180K. I have TKS so I don't get anywhere near factory advertised cruise. I suggest you fly one on an over standard day. The M model needs a fair amount of runway. It also is not a good airplane on unpaved surfaces. Also if you get serious about this make sure whatever one you are looking at is not subject to Lycoming SB 569A. Lycoming recently added more crankshaft serial numbers to the list. Exhaust systems are also problematic. I have put 1100 hrs on the airplane in 9 years and have enjoyed it. The big trip was a lap around the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean last winter about 9000 miles.

Jeev, I would suggest that you find a Bravo and and stick the owner up for a ride. I bought a Bravo in 2003 because it is slightly larger and somewhat more comfortable. This is my 3rd Mooney. I do longer trips than you do so the comfort may not appeal to you, I like the wet heads and all the dual stuff. A friend flies a 231 on my wing a lot. He burns 10.5 while I burn 14.5. I live in Denver and can attest that the M rides a little better in the bumps. It is a great weather airplane.

If I were choosing from the list I think A1 might work. T-2 requires equipment not found in piston airplanes. This is baffling and I am surprised AOPA has not given some direction on it. With winter coming some of us will need to know as we will be heading for warmer climates. In the US you only use the ICAO form when filing RNAV SIDS and STARS.

74767, I guy on the other end of the hangar row sold his TLS several years ago and bought a Malibu. He had to sell his hangar and get a larger one, of course his insurance went up and maintenance bill went through the ceiling. He likes it and can afford it so he is happy.

350KT, I just thought of something unrelated to ice that you might want to consider in your aircraft choice. A rudder trim is worthwhile item for long climbs. TLSs have them, I don't know if they were added to Rockets (231s).

Back in 2003 I decided to get back into Mooneys. I was shopping for a Rocket but had an opportunity to test fly a Bravo. I liked the slightly larger cabin, Lycoming (wet head) engine, new radios ( factory original), big O2 bottle and 200TT. The bigger cabin costs some airspeed but is more comfortable. The baggage area is large and removing a seat makes it huge. Years ago I did a dive trip to Roatan in a 231. We also spent a week in Guatemala. By the time the three of us got back to Denver I was real tired. Last year I took two friends and made a lap around the Caribbean (Martinique, Grenada and Panama). We carried dive gear and baggage for a month. I was far more comfortable on this trip although the trip was much longer. The Rocket has a little better performance and low speed handling maybe better but the TLS rides a little better in the bumps. Either one will probably work just fine. Prices of either are low. I would be looking for low time with an up to date autopilot and no damage. I like the TKS, mine is FIKI and works well. I probably have not put 40 gals through it but on occasion have had to sit in continuous ice for 40 minutes or so. The booted airplanes I have owned would have caused me considerable anxiety in those circumstances. Good Luck!

230KT, I have TKS on my TLS. I occasionally fly a friend's TLS which has only a hot prop. No doubt in my mind the TKS causes a loss of performance on both the top and bottom end. I think it takes about 8kts off the top end. At 75% probably 6kts. I have owned two airplanes with boots and have noticed the boots cost a few kts. Flying at altitude means coming down through more clouds which usually means more icing encounters. I find the TKS to be useful even though it does not get used very often. I hate giving up the performance until I get into a bunch of ice. Deciding whether to get TKS depends on where you operate and how bad you need to get somewhere.

Triple8s I owned a TLS for nine years. The wet head is one of the best things that Lycoming ever thought up. Much better altitude engine than the Continental.