Nemesis

Now I better understand that you were talking about total maintenance for the year. The first week that I owned this airplane was spent doing agreed upon repairs that were part of the sale as well as an extensive annual. I installed a JPI 830, new battery, new shock disks, rebuilt nose gear from Lasar, rebuilt mags, and anything and everything that we could think of. I spent about $4000 of the previous owner's money and about $4000 of my own to make sure and minimize any lingering problems and make sure that all maintenance that might have been past due was up to par. Since then, outside of changing the oil, filter, and filling with fuel, I doubt that I have spent more than $3000 per year in total maintenance including the annual inspection and associated repairs. So, from my point of view, unless the regulations in Luxembourg and the EU are so heinous as to require that 17000 EUR, it still makes no sense to me. Someone would need to show me some serious justification for costs that high. Dave

The 231 has the same anti-siphon valve in the fuel neck that your 252 has. When I want a full load of fuel, I commonly fill to about 1 inch above the bottom of the anti-siphon valve. Yes, it is slow going but I have done it many times and would guess it is reasonable that 1.5 gallons per side can be added after the bottom of the anti-siphon valve. The biggest problem is when filling above the bottom of the neck, the air has to be ejected and much of that air comes out around the bottom of the open valve and makes a bit of a splash. Dave

Hanger, insurance, GPS updates, as fixed costs they are what they are. Do a little searching in Lux and surrounding countries to determine if what you are being told is accurate. Certainly the cost for an annual inspection is going to vary depending on the shop and mechanics used. Here in the US I have seen annuals range from about $1100 dlls to about $2400 dlls. My mechanic charges $1700 for the inspection. For small and rather minor repairs, he does not charge anything above his inspection costs except for the parts used so long as the time involved is not excessive. Then I get his normal shop rate for any real repairs beyond minor. This year my annual was less than $2000 and the most expensive annual that I have had in the 5 years that I have had the airplane was about $2400. Of course, I very much stay on top of any maintenance during the year and do not wait or postpone until annual time. Given that the EUR and Dlls are similar in value, if you were quoted 1700 EUR that would make sense to me. 17000 would be ridiculous and sickening. Dave

No. Once I get to about 62% and at about 9.5 gph for the low compression engine, the TIT is at 1600dF and any more power (higher MP) produces an even higher TIT. So, it is just a no starter for me. The GAMI injectors seem to be doing their job with less than 0.3 gph spread. I wouldn't mind giving up a small % of power in favor of LOP ops but more than 10% is just too much. That is not what I bought a Mooney for. If I want to fly at less than 62% power I can set the mixture pretty much anywhere if I was trying to get greater range. At higher altitudes, say above FL180, then the CDT also begins to be a problem. I could solve the CDT problem with an intercooler but an intercooler will do nothing for the TIT. Maybe at overhaul time I can exchange the turbo for a different unit. Of course, that also is a risk in case I get one that is even worse. Actually N201MKTurbo, provided that all 4 cylinders in your high compression engine are running LOP, the power that your engine is producing is very precisely known !! If all 4 cylinders are running LOP, then multiply your total fuel flow by 14.9 to arrive at your precise horsepower. Divide your horsepower number by the rated horsepower of your engine (200) and you will arrive at your % of horsepower currently in use. (FF x 14.9) / 200 = %hp (or) FF x 0.0745 = %hp <--- formula is for 200 hp high compression gasoline engine. The 14.9 multiplier is for a gasoline high compression engine. For low compression engines such as my TSIO-360LB, the multiplier is 13.7. Dave

I think FoxMike is right about one thing in that getting a good match between turbo system and engine is difficult. I have been at GAMI in OK where they make the Tornado Alley Turbo system for the Bo and took the APS class. The guys there are on top of all the data as it relates to piston engine technology. I think I can reasonably say that it is quite likely that they put together the very best turbo system that technology would allow for the Bonanzas. As for my 231 with it's older and more rudimentary system, my TIT gets to 1600dF at about the 62% mark LOP so - TIT is my limiting factor. I prefer to run at 1550dF TIT or less and I can only do that ROP with higher power settings. I am guessing that my turbocharger itself is somewhat less efficient than others therefore it has to run harder and hotter to give me decent output. Dave

Joe, There are many threads here on MS about rigging. Do a little searching and read up on the subject. Also, I would suggest to not get too deep into rigging until you talk to a qualified Mooney specific mechanic and one that has the Mooney travel boards to measure the position and movement of your control surfaces. The first thing to do is to get the rudder rigged, first on the ground and then in the air. Level the airplane left and right using the seat rails as your level surfaces. Level front to back is not so important in this first step. Once laterally level, check to see if the ball is centered in your turn coordinator. if so, then your instrument is ok. Next, fly the airplane to determine which direction the rudder needs to go to get the ball centered in flight. If you feel brave, you can flex the trailing edge of the rudder in the opposite direction needed to begin to try to get the ball centered. In other words, if the ball is out to the right so that you need right rudder, then flex the trailing edge of the rudder to the left. When I say flex, I mean flex. Some might say bend but if you bend the metal you will have made and HUGE adjustment. Also remember that any of these adjustments are very subtle. It does not take much adjusting to make a big difference in flight!! I know that you asked specifically about your ailerons and that they appear offset, but the part that must be corrected first is rudder. That is where the rigging process starts. Again, I wouldn't do much adjusting - or any - until you have talked to good Mooney specific mechanic that actually looks at your airplane and makes a recommendation, and also until you have some sort of feel about how subtle these adjustments really are - perhaps by observation. Dave

Firstly and most important, I offer my condolences to the Moir family. I never met Michael but I know many in the Mooney community feel a loss when we hear of these terrible accidents. Regarding the AP, I think Don is correct about how the Altitude Hold would react after engine out, using elevator to try and maintain altitude and thereby slowing during much of the decent until disconnect and then the resulting near vertical dive with almost no forward ground speed. As far as direction, the AP will only follow what the GPS would be telling it to do. As I remember it, after passing the last waypoint in my old King 89B GPS, the GPS unit goes into OBS mode and will continue to track the same direction as between the last two waypoints. If My last vector was 125 degrees, the GPS unit will continue to feed the AP with a 125 degree vector. Dave

Joe, why not just turn on the fuel pump with the fuel pressure line disconnected and draining into a jar or something? If there is something in the line maybe it will just blow it out into the jar - for you to find and inspect - and not clog up the gauge anymore. Dave

Come on guys, its all ball bearings these days, Now prepare that Fetzer with 3 in 1 oil and some gauze pads. And I'll need some anti-freeze - Prestone, no no, make that Quaker State.

peevee, I also have a 1980 K model and that piece on mine is a strip of aluminum with flush rivets visible in the paint. Dave

PTK and TJ, if the STC does not include the J, what was the authority used to install the Orion's? I would like to install as well but there don't seem to be many field approvals going through these days. Dave

Well, finally it is time to put this thread to bed. The answer is.... that there is no answer. I took my airplane up to Kerry McIntyre in Evanston WY for it's annual earlier this month. I took the next oil filter that was used (after finding the offending particles) with me and we opened it up together for inspection. As per usual with this sort of thing the filter was void of any of the little pieces of plastic. So, as of now, this was a one time occurrence. Before going to WY, I had changed the oil a couple of weeks prior. I did not run the engine that day - the first time that I did not run the engine immediately after filling with oil. When I was next at the hanger, there was about 1/2 quart of nice clean oil on the floor and nose wheel. I cleaned everything up, checked the oil, ran the engine, checked for more leaks, etc. I came back the next day and with no other signs of leakage, I flew a pattern around the airport and again checked for leaks - none detected. The only thing that I could conclude was that the quick drain was not completely closed and that the heat and vibrations from running the engine closed up the quick drain just fine. Kerry suggested that maybe it was a good time to inspect the quick drain valve more closely and at the very least, install a new o-ring. Hiding inside the lip of the quick drain was a fragment of the offending orange plastic material - together with a rock hard o-ring. Kerry examined that fragment for 1/2 an hour and compared it to as many orangish hard-plastic things that his 35 years of A&P / IA experience could muster before deciding that it matches nothing that he has ever seen inside or around a Continental engine. So, the biggest takeaway from this thread has nothing to do with little orange plastic fragments. The lessons learned are - continue to cut and inspect those oil filters, always run the engine immediately after filling with fresh new oil, and that I hope at their next annual, EVERYBODY will change the o-ring in their quick drain valves because those things turn rock hard and create a real point of catastrophic failure if that Jolly Rancher like material is damaged in the least. Dave

There are about 25 aircraft total at KCXL Calexico CA. - 4 are AG machines, 1 Thrush and 3 R44s (or R22s, I don't know helicopters) - 4 derelicts - 2 others that fly regularly - My K model, that of course flies regularly - I have never even seen the hanger doors open for the other 14 or so But, the new runway will be finished in June. Smooth asphalt for a change!! Dave

I was very happy with the way my K model flew for the first 2 years. No complaints. I changed to a different A&P / IA for my 3rd annual just so a 2nd pair of trained eyes could take a look, Kerry McIntyre in Evanston WY suggested that we carefully check the rigging. I made the small changes to the elevators and rudder and Kerry made the changes to the ailerons and flaps. Well, I was happy with how it flew before and I was ecstatic with how it flew after. In smooth air, it will fly for more than 40 seconds hands off and usually for more than a minute. I only have to breathe on the controls to be straight and level. To answer your question more directly, I also showed the turn coordinator ball to be in a small skid before and centered after the rigging. I did make a change by 1 or 1-1/2 or 2 revolutions of the rudder actuator arm connecting hardware. Dave

Chuck, When I bought N231NF I redid the mags and put in all new Champion massives. Less than 3 years later and 310 hours, I was having problems with the lower plug on #2 cylinder. Kerry McIntyre told me that was about the life limit of Champion plugs. I thought he had to be kidding but sure enough, 7 of 12 plugs had high resistance - greater than 5k ohms. The one that was in the bottom of #2 had 28k ohms. I have never really seen a problem with too many lead balls gathering or shorting so I went with Tempest massives. Dave

True, it is similar to a float bowl in that... -on a carb, when you remove the center bolt it usually exposes the high speed jet. -on the airplane, the center bolt is from where the fuel drains. Of course there is no float inside, just empty space and a very fine screen. Dave

Dallas, I would not pump the drain ring open and closed a bunch of times trying to clear it !!! There is something in there that is preventing fuel flow. The entire purpose of that pull ring and the fuel sump is so that you know fuel is flowing freely from both tanks. If it is clogged, then get the FOD out of your fuel system!! If you happen to knock it loose without inspecting, where is that crud going to go, to the screen or worse to block a tank line? It is an easy job. First, turn off the fuel from the fuel selector. The worst part is removing and reinstalling the belly panel immediately behind the nose gear on the left side. After the panel is off, you will find an alum drum / tank about 2" dia and 4" long with a single bolt in the center. Cut the safety wire, remove the bottom bolt, and don't forget to put something under to catch the bit of fuel that will come out. The center of that bolt assy is where the fuel drains from when you pull the ring. Clean out what ever crap is in there. Carefully pull the screen from the center shaft and blow it out or clean it up as well. Inspect with lights and mirrors as necessary. There are o-rings for the center shaft as well as the can. If I remember correctly, one is easy to replace and the other is impossible - not sure. Take a look at the rim of the can and notice that there is a small notch. There is also a key in the seat area when you go to reinstall the can. Be sure they are aligned before you put on the nut. I don't remember the torque value for the nut. Check for leaks and proper fuel flow from both tanks. Reinstall the safety wire and belly panel and you are done. Dave

First off, I could be wrong, but as I remember SkyTec starters do not have a conventional Bendix. They employ a different method to engage / disengage. The first things that I would search for would be crimp connectors and/or dirty corroded connections. If a crimp connector gets corroded, that corrosion can hide under the connector and inside the wire's insulator cover. If that happens, it can certainly give an intermittent connection which can vary with temperature. I know it is a huge pain in the ass, but I would probably disconnect the battery, and starting at the starter high-voltage connections, remove, clean, and inspect each connection all the way back to the battery. By inspect, I mean to grab very firmly and try to twist and flex the crimp portion of the connector and the first couple of inches of wire to see if any green corroded copper falls out. I hate to suggest all of that work in that I would hate to do that myself or pay to have it done for me. See you in Kerrville in a couple of weeks. Dave

You are just hooked way too much on the formation thing Lacee. See you in Kerrville. Dave

Yooper and Doc, Siphoning of fuel at higher altitudes has been a problem for decades. I think the Mooney anti-siphon valve is a pretty good and simple solution. My K does not have the vacuum problem that you describe so I must have just a slight leak into that cavity that relieves the vacuum. However, I remember posts in some other thread asking about a small hole located high in the outboard side of the filler neck in newer Acclaims and Ovations. I sort of remember the conclusion of those posts was about air relief during fueling but now that I have read about your problem, it is much more likely that it was a solution to vacuum locked fuel caps. So, I would try to track down a couple of owners of newer aircraft and ask them. An A&P with a current set of parts manuals might be a good source as well. Maybe a call to Dmax or Paul Loewen at LASAR might help too. Dave

kmyfm20s, where do you go when you come out to the desert? I am in KCXL Calexico / Mexicali. See you and Stinkbug in Yuma this weekend. Dave N231NF

I was in Los Mochis a year and a half ago and had no problems. Pay the typical fees for opening and closing flight plans, fuel pumping, etc. (I cleared customs before MMLM.) They have an ample ramp and parking area so mot much chance of damage and good fencing so it is probably secure - at least from outside people anyway. There were also a couple of charter guys in the office at the same time I was and they said the same things - never any problems with airport staff. Not having flown across the border very much, they were also helpful without trying to stick me for extra money. I did not stay overnight, I was just in and out. I have no complaints from Los Mochis.

I did my PPL checkride in a 172 in May 2002. Because I got very busy afterward, I didn't step into an airplane again for another 6 years. After doing a Flight Review in 2008, I stepped up to renting 182s and a 182RG. With the 182, finally I was flying something that you could actually travel in. I did my Instrument rating in 2009 and kept using the 182RG for traveling but about this time I was looking to own. I was in Denver at the time and given that the first thing that I ever did on a trip was to climb over giant mountains, I started looking for something with a turbo. I got my 1981 K model early in 2011 and am very satisfied. It would be pretty difficult to find a better combo of speed, performance, and efficiency. Dave

I have a KLN 89B. My setup to update is... One of the hard drives in my desktop still has WinXP SP3 on it. I use the cables from Lonestar Aviation for their take-home system. For a serial connection I use a Gigaware USB - Serial converter from Radio Shack. The trick to the whole setup is to first get the OS to talk to the USB - Serial converter. Install, uninstall, re-install - until you can see a new serial port in Device Manager. If it does not show in Device Manager then the computer does not recognize your serial port. Once recognized by the computer, it is usually an easy matter to tell the uploader which serial port to use and then contact the GPS unit. If you have one of those older card readers that fit that odd sized card, the trick is to use an OS old enough to both recognize the card reader and run the uploader software. Dave

Does anybody know anything about or have experiences with Star Aviation Insurance? My quote from them is more than $200 less than Chartis / AIG.