Seth

I sold my former 1967 M20F Model to a gentleman based out of KVNC just south of you. PM me and I'll get your contact information so the two of you can potentially meet up. There are many threads here explaining the different Mooney Models, and I suggest you use the search function, or one our members can quickly provide the links, but there are short, medium, and long body models. Budget and need let you know which model to pursue. Short body Mooney aircraft, Models A-E. A and B have wood wings where the C and forward are all metal. The D is fixed gear and there are few out there non converted, and E is the C model with a 200 HP fuel injected model instead of a 180 HP carbureted engine. The short body is a great plane for the money, except, the back passengers have little leg room, and they are vintage models now. I think they are great planes and both a C or E at a good price, after a good pre-buy would be a great buy. The E is faster and the 20 extra ponies help in the climb - 145 to 150 knots, and the C is less expensive - 140 knots. The mid length bodies are the F, G, J, and K. The F is basically a stretched E model with the same 200 HP engine and loses 2-3 knots. It also has higher gross weight, increased useful load, and fuel tanks are increased by 10 gallons. Bang for the buck, the F model may be the most capability you get for your money. The G is the 180 HP version of the F. The J also know as the 201 is the aerodynamically cleaned up F model and adds 10 knots. The J model is the quintessential Mooney. It is the Mooney everyone thinks of when they compare aircraft. It squeezes so much efficiency out of a 200 HP normally aspirated engine. The K is the firs turbocharged Mooney from the factory – 210 HP six cylinder and on the Encore 220 HP. The 231 was the original K model, 252 the better engineered K model, and the Encore was the final iteration with a higher useful load and gross weight. The 252 many say was the best Mooney produced. The Long Bodies are the L, M, R, S, and TN. The L is the Porsche Mooney – developed with a Porsche engine. They are no longer supported and many have been converted to be an Ovation clone. The M is the first big bored engine turbocharged Mooney – 270 HP TSIO 540. Originally named the TLS, the updated and improved version is known as the Bravo. The Ovation is the normally aspirated big bore version IO 550. It has 280 HP and can be upped to 310 HP with after market STCs. There are three versions of the Ovation – the Ovation, Ovation 2, and Ovation 3. Different HP and prop combinations as well as updated avionics change differentiate the models. The M20S is the Eagle, and since the mid bodies were not produced anymore it was meant to be the J/201 replacement. Many have been converted to Screaming Eagles to give Ovation like performance. The eagle is limited to 244 HP. The TN, is know as the Acclaim and replaced the Bravo in the Turbocharged lineup. The TN type S is the worlds fastest production piston single at 242 knots. To summarize: Short body A & B - Wood wings C – 180 HP engine D – Fixed gear C version – only six left not converted to a C (retractable) E – 200 HP fuel injected engine – The performance champ of the short Mid-Length Body – Stretched 10 Inches – 5 added to back seat leg room, 5 added to baggage compartment F – 200 HP E model stretched 10 inches – 145-148 knots – J model minus 10 knots for $30k less G – 180 HP mid length body – the slowest of all Mooney aircraft, but also a great value J – This is the quintessential Mooney – also known as the 201 – Aerodynamically cleaned up M20F – same 200 HP – 155 to 160 knots. K – 210 HP Turbocharged Model – 231, 252, and Encore – All K models. Long Body – Stretched even long M20L – Porsche Mooney – Porsche engine, but not supported anymore – many converted to Ovation / R Model M20M – Bravo – Turbocharged long body – six cylinder – higher fuel burn, higher speed M20R – Ovation – Normally Aspirated six cylinder powered Mooney – IO 550 M20S – Eagle – Normally Aspirated six cylinder to replace the J in the lineup – 244 HP – many converted to the Screaming Eagle by a 310 HP STC. M20TN – Acclaim - Turbocharged long body – replaced the Bravo, 242 knot top speed Modifications – There are many Mods – many older Mooney Models A-G can be upgraded aerodynamically to mimic the J model. -Trophy 262 – takes a 231 and modifies it to a 252 (K model) Rocket Engineering: -Mooney Rocket – K Model upgraded with a 305 HP turbocharged – Faster than the Bravo -Mooney Missile – J Model with a 300 HP engine normally aspirated, basically a baby Ovation M20T – Predator – Military trainer prototype – very cool – one was made, and it now resides in Florida (search for a pic). The question is what is your budget, mission, and in the Mooney World, speed you want to travel. Take care, and believe me, the Mooney Space community is happy to have you here and will answer any questions you have. The search tool is a fantastic feature. Take care, -Seth

Looking forward to it! Mike - just sent you a PM and Email - I'll be there Sunday the 29th -Seth

When was is based at KGAI?

Quote: Becca I saw it from Gravelly Park just north of DCA airport. 3 passes. Awesome. (Maybe not as awesome as when I helped out on the STS-114 ferry flight, but definitely more awesome than the fly bys we saw in Houston in 2008). Also, Gravelly Park, awesome. I can't believe there is still a public park that close to a major DC airport. Right under the departure end of the runway, spitting distance from the VOR and approach lights, what a cool place for plane spotting.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=47070975? This link is the video and ATC of the space shuttle circling DC on the 747. Right now (as in live) -Seth

I have a battery minder and currently would buy it and again and do endorse it. I have had no issues with power at startup in my Mooney Missile. I currently have two Gill batteries on the special rack in the tailcone. I replaced my Gill in the 1967 Mooney M20F with a Concord with extra crankingpower after two and a half years of ownership when it woundn't hold enough charge to start the engine. -Seth

I normall would not consider a hot drop off. I would in very rare cases even consider a hot drop off, I did it once - I will explain. I was undergoing either a BFR or IPC and need to pick up a paper chart for a long XC the next day. This was before the IPad and when I owned my former 1967 M20F (yes, I'm sorry to those who know I say former M20F often and as opposed to the Mooney Missile - I just like to be clear in first hand stories - I know I mention the two by name a lot). It was just at sunset when I picked up my charts at FDK and headed back to the aircraft. When I went to start the plane the started did not engage. I mean nothing - no buzz, no movement whatsoever, as if I didn't even turn and press the key. I am based at GAI - Gaithersburg, MD, the instructor is based at W00 - Freeway in Mitchellville, MD, and the plane was dead when we went to start the engine at FDK - Frederick, MD. Worst case scenario, we get a taxi or call someone to drive out, get us, and then figure it out the next day. It's only about 18 mile by air and probably 22-26 miles by car from GAI to FDK, mostly freeway. The good news is that the instructor I was using was also worked for the MSC I use, so we got out of the plane, did some trouble shooting, and determined it was the original solenoid (this was Feb 2010, and the solenoid was from 1966 as my plane was actually one of the first F models build, named a 1967 but actually a 1966), so with dark approaching, we took my crash-bag tools on board, and no joke, simply tapped the solenoid with a hammer a few times, and after each tap, I would engage the starter to see if it would make the buzzing noise and crank a tiny bit. After the third or four "tap" we actually got it to work and engage so we touched nothing else, buttoned up the cowling, got in the aircraft, and then started the engine. By this time it was about an hour after sunset. The original plan was to have me fly the instructor back to W00 (freeway) and then I'd fly home to GAI. Instead, we were now going to land at KGAI, he'd drop me off, and then take the aircraft to Freeway for a new solenoid. Upon landing at KGAI, we realized he would be stranded here if we turned off the engine and the solenoid froze up completely. So, I had him fill out my logbook in the plan with the engine still running, and then we came up with a plan to switch seats, as I was in the left seat, he was in the right seat, and my aircraft only had brakes on the pilot side. We put on the parking brake, he got out of the plane with the engine running, and walked around to the front of the wing about halfway down and held it in place to act as an extra brake should the parking brake not hold. We both discussed that we had to make sure we did not hit the throttle while climbing out or climbing in, and if so, reduce it immediately. Once he was in position, he gave me a thumbs up signal. I then got out of the aircraft with the parking brake set and the engine running, walked around to the front of the wing where he was standing, took position to hold the front of the wing in place should the brakes fail, and then he left the front of the wing, walked around to the back of the wing, climbed aboard, got in the left passenger seat, and once he had control, he then gave me the thumbs up and I walked to the end of the wing and then gave him a thumbs up once I was clear of the aircraft. He flew the plane to Freeway and a new Solenoid was installed. I thought the entire time to stay as close to the leading edge as possible when walking on the front side of the wing and not to get more than halfway down the wing. We were both pilots, both knew Mooney aircraft very well, and still this maneuver did elevate risk. Frankly, what we should have done was have him get in the left seat at FDK and then I'd just get out with the prop running at GAI, but we didn't realize that shutting down the engine at GAI may be an issue until after we were on the way. So, shut down every time, unless for some reason it is determined that it is not prudent to, and then at that point, come up with a plan and have all people aboard understand communication and how to make the plan work so that everyone remains safe. I plan to shut down every time - but in this circumstance I did not. Was getthereitis involved? Yes on both parties, but we looked at the risks, and made a decision. Technically, we could have tried handproping, but that's another thread all together. Take care, -Seth

I want to be there but cannot make the 12th! I hope for your hard work that it does not rain, but I can be there the 13th. Great job Mike. -Seth

I don't plan to sell my Mooney for the next few decades unless I stop flying. If I ever to "step up" it will be in a shared arrangment or flying club of some sort for a faster, larger, FIKI, pressuraized, and obviously less efficient and more expensive aircraft. I'd still keep the Mooney for my own fun flying and trips within certain mission parameters. There is also the argument that maintaining two Mooney's is less expnsive than a more capable aircraft. Use just one unless you need the space, and then two, with the two costing together fuel burn and everything else considered equal to a twin - but now you have eight seats! For instance, get a decent F model for $50,000, as the second plane, and use that for when you need the six seats. Just make sure to have that second pilot! -Seth

Amazing! I may have to head back to Florida!

I've stalled in getting my commerical, and then after that, my CFI. I passed my Class 2 Medical already last May, so I really want to hurry up and finish the commerical license! Part of that had to do with selling my plane and getting the new one, and then breaking in a new engine before manuvers, but I'm ready to do that now. I'm curious about how many CFI's we have on MooneySpace and where you are located. The reason for the location is the other MooneySpacers may need a good Mooney CFI from time to time. Thanks for partaking in this survey. -Seth

Thank you Roberto - that's some good insight. -Seth

I have the JPI 830 and love it. It was a fantastic suggestion by the A&P who installed it along with the engine overhaul and it really adds a level of monitoring that was not availalbe on my previous aircraft. The missile also had fuel flow through a separate unit that was required during the conversion and is still abord the aircraft so technically I have two fule flow sources. I prefer the 830, but it is great to have a separate functioning unit - I'm guessing it's the same feeds. I cannot comment on anything else except for these two as it is all I've used. Ross, when we finally meet in person, I'll show them to you and let you maipulate the systems first hand. Take care, -Seth Edit: Mine is connected to the Garmin 430 and automatically calculates how much fuel is left, fuel needed to get to where I'm going, extra fuel left over after landing, both in gallons, time until empty at current cruise configuration - it's really quite something when you mix the GPS with the Fuel Flow. I have not checked to see if the 430 transfers this to the interconnected Aera but I wouldn't be suprised as the flight plan data is shared.

Let me know what the organizers say and what time you'd want me there on Sunday - I'm going to try to make it work. I cannot however attend on Saturay. -Seth

Also, after viewing this thread, I'm curious about the TBM 700 comparison to the PA-46 that Parker suggested as an alternative. Anyone with actual experience? Anyone with fake experience I know Roberto flew and owned (or is still selling - I saw it on controller) a TBM-850, but the TBM 700 is a 280 knot plane for half if not a third the price of a used 850. What is the price vs. speed vs fuel burn, everything else of the PA-46 vs TBM-700. I'd do the research, but this morning I'm just lazy and busy and want to see what other people state. I don't think this is hijacking the thread as we're still compariing the PA-46 which is what is being discussed as a potential step up. Take care, -Seth

Quote: johnggreen I do often hear tall Bonanza owners on the Beech forum looking for solutions as well. One guy suggested a Mooney and was promptly thrown off the blog. just kidding. Jgreen

This looks like a great event! I may have to figure out a way to get down there on Sunday the 29th. Any other Mooney Pilots looking to go? -Seth

I flew from the East to West Coast and then back in my former 1967 M20F in 2010. It was a memorable trip. My route rest was along the Southern areas however the return trip is similar to your route. I left from Portlant, Oregon, stopped in Bozeman, Montanta, Rapid City Falls (Mt. Rushmore), and then Minneapolis/St. Paul to visit a friend and for business. Flew home from there. I will make it a point to visit Dayton, OH now! Also, I'm planning a trip to Reno this Fall, along with stops up and down the west coast so I'm watching this thread. The trip will be a lot faster in the Missile. 16 hours accross the country at 145 knots, 12 hours at 180 knots! Mt. Rushmore was well worth it. I arrived just before sunset and got there in time to see the evening program. Very neat to see that national monument. -Seth

I had mine looked at - all clear. 1983 M20J Missile 300. -Seth

I have not used camguard yet but plan to. I used Aeroshell 15w50 in my previous aircraft and now that I have a newly overhauled engine in the Missile, I plan to use Phillips XC 20w50 and after 100 hours will add camguard (once the risk of causing blow-by with additives is removed). I was happy with using the Aeroshell 15w50 but have decided that the camguard additive will be used in the future. Also, cost wise, Phillips XC 20w50 is less than Aeroshell 15w50, so that makes up for some of the cost of the expensive but important camguard additive. -Seth

Quote: mschmuff I wanted to thank everyone for their input on this thread as well as a couple other threads. As of Monday April 2nd I am the proud new owner of a 1967 M20F electric gear / manual flaps, Century III auto pilot and HSI. (No IFR GPS) 1 piece windshield (not 201), cowl closure, flap, aileron, wing root gap seals, 201 side windows, new prop/hub. ….It had a gear up in the 80’s but everything was well documented. It is missing the ram air door cable – any idea where I can get one of them? Just to share a “classic delivery” story – the seller flew the plane to Wilmington, DE for my mechanic to do a 2nd and final inspection. I got the thumbs up from him, we did the deal and went out for an hour training / familiarization flight. After I felt comfortable, we flew to Trenton, NJ and I dropped him off. On take off, the ammeter dropped to -30! And btw, it’s 930pm. I get half way home and the radios start to go so I immediately drop the gear using up the remaining battery power and everything goes black - no green gear light. ….(in hindsight, I should have dropped the gear as soon as I saw the ammeter drop) At this point I am on a Bravo clearance from Philly so I vacate their airspace. I circle around Wilmington waiting for a light gun signal and get nothing so I go in and land with no landing light and only 6 hours in type. Nice first flight!! I met my mechanic at 8am and removed the generator. Pieces fell out upon extraction. Long story made endless, I’m upgrading to an alternator, a light weight starter and swapping the landing light for an LED…..and it begins!! Glad I took someone’s advice on here and put 10% of the sales price away for 1st year maintenance! Thanks for that piece of advice!! So if you guys think I asked a lot of questions before buying, just wait…now that I own!! Any other must have mods? I’m thinking SWTA’s oil cooler relo / 2nd landing light mod. The panel needs help – Narco AP, mk12, MAC 1700, Garmin 100GPS. I put a 696 on the yoke and am considering a GMA340 or PS7000 or 8000 audio panel, new jacks, iPod hook up etc. Maybe a GNC300, I just don’t think I can stomach a 430W but I want a “newer” comm1…..thoughts??? And if anyone knows anybody in the mid-atlantic that does reasonable avionics work – let me know!! These shops are highway robbery!!

I just recieved an email notice from the Maryland Aviation Administration as a General Aviation Bulletin that the Frederick Tower, FDK, will become operational on May 1 at 0700 Local. Frederick ATCT Ooperationl 0700 - 2100 L, 7 days a week. Non-operational hours CTAF and Runway Lighting Control on Tower Frequency of 132.40. For details call Frederick Muncipal Aiprot at 301-600-2201. I know some of us frequent that area and some are based there (John, and Chuck too but he's not on Mooney Space), and some of us fly near there (me, Hank, etc) so I figured all should know the date of the new tower being operational as opposed to sitting ther built and looking pretty, but with no one operating it. I believe this will not hurt traing too much, and instead assist in the safety of this high traffic airport at peak times. At non peak times, I feel it is not needed. Mainly I think it is there for the peak times, AOPA, and keeping track of aircraft operating close to the SFRA and Camp David (but that is just specualtion). Happy Flying! -Seth

While no Rockies, the Appalachian Mountains run up the eastern US and divide the east Coast from the Ohio Valley and the plains of the center of the United States. Whenever I head to OH, IL, IN, WV, and believe it or not (unless you live or fly there regularly) NC and VA, you have plenty of terrain to deal with, and unless you are real high, you get bumps of some sort. If you look at the airspace around DC, on the west side the Class Bravo outer ring rises very quickly to allow enough clearance for the baby mountains. At first when flying I just thought the thermals got bad around here but I've learned a lot of it is air masses moving down the mountains and spilling out toward the shore. Some of it is thermals, but a lot is not. Ned - I'm sorry we missed meeting each other - just a few days before I was able to meet up with Erik for about 20 minutes. However, I have never really experienced flying where I couldn't climb or maintain 9000' without running the engine hard. I have had a hard time holding an altitude due to getting slammed around, but that's when you request a block altitude. No matter what, whenever I'm flying over WV, I get bounced around. With the windy conditions yesterday, I knew it would be a turbulent flight. It is amazing how it is hard to know around here when it looks like a clear day and you are immediately slammed by the mountain waves (not like the Rockies again) or the thermals. I love the days when it's smooth as glass with no bumps at any low altitude. Separately, I love looking at my WX seeing the frontal line, and then looking out and seeing the cloud line in the same location as the frontal line on the map. The closer you are to the frontal boundaries, usually the more bumpy it is (again, usually). Anyone ever experience a massive frontal downdraft or mountain waves? I was lucky to be up this morning getting an IPC, and it was still rather bumpy. I never climbed above 4000 feet as we practiced multiple approaches at BWI and GAI. Glad you made it home safe! -Seth

My former 1967 F model had Ram Air and I didn't use it a lot the first two years, and then started using it more and more at higher altitudes in clean air and it is amazing how that extra inch of pressure turns into a few more knots. The Missile has no Ram Air control. I know the "winking" eye air intake does work well. -Seth

I just voted Jolie - I'll see if I can run through a couple of times to get some more Mooney Votes. -Seth