Seth

I know I have heard rumors in the past about this never happening, it being a good idea, it being a bad idea, or it being too pricey, but here is the idea (and it's not a unique idea - many of us have spoken about this in the past). Will Mooney, of course should they be able to get through these tough times and resume production, ever consider reproducing a modern 201 style airplane with a smaller engine? To compete price wise with the mid level singles. I have heard that they destroyed the jigs and equipment necedssary to reproduce the short body Mooney's but what about the medium length jobs (M20J, K). Obviously, the current long body Mooney needs a more powerful engine and is all about speed (and there is nothing wrong with that). If Mooney put out a product that was basically a new 201 (a new eagle), had the aerodynamic improvements of todays birds, and was at a price point lower than the current $600k (somewhere between $300 and $400 maybe? You could have basic avionics and add glass as an option), do you think a lot of M20J (E, C, K, etc . . . ) owners would go for it? As annuals become more expensive, and larger amounts of work have to be done to the current Mooney fleet, would there be a price where it makes sense to have a newer low end Mooney than maintaining a 40+ year old aircraft? Do you think it would sell? Just a thought, please elaborate on what you know and what you think.

Thanks for the compliments - but I know I still have a lot to learn. You get used to where you fly and as long as you watch out for the obstacles, its not that difficult a field - and you can always go around if you don't like your approach on final. I initially trained at GAI - Gaithersburg, then two years later at LZU - Lawrenceville, and then finally finished the PPL after another two year break at PDK - Peachtree Deklab. So Freeway is a much smaller runway (but great people). At Freeway, it's interesting, when using runway 18, due to the power lines that run almost directly north of the runway and then parallel the west side of the field, you have a shortened base and almost a 45 degree final until you cross a highway, line up, and land. It's an angled final until you have avoided the danger of the wires. You can see what I'm talking about using google maps or mapquest and looking at the satellite photos. You want to avoid the wires, but it does make for an interesting approach. Also, the runway is 40 feet wide by 2400 feet (when landing on 36 there's a displaced threshold so its a bit shorter). I learned to fly the Mooney at Freeway (first test flight of the Mooney's I flew was at Freeway), and I've gotten used to the smaller runway. There is a painted orange stripe halfway down the runway. If you have not touched down by the stripe, you go around. It always amazes me that even with 2400 feet you can use minimal braking to slow down as long as you fly the numbers properly in the pattern. I admit though, when I come back to Freeway from a 5000' by 100' runway, it looks SMALL. Amazing though how you line up on centerline a lot better when the runway is narrow.

He's one of the featured people in the Mooney adds in Flying and other magazines. I have not seen his airplane on MooneySpace yet in the pictures area (though he may have singed up recently or I just missed it). It's a black BMW scheme Acclaim Type S. He is a dentist.

The "Duct Tape" material is actually part of the install. Mine looked like a canvas bag with the edges duct taped in place. That is literally what it was for years until they came out with the boot method (which is some sort of plastic or rubber). That's what they are installing now since the canvass material had the gaping hole in it allowing access for critters in to the aircraft. I'm not sure if it is FAA approved, but that's evidently what shops, including MSC centers, used for years. I actually trained for about 11 hours in 2002 in Lawrencville. I remember they used to tie down blimps there, do they still do that?

Tomorrow on the east coast a front is coming through (in the mid atlantic region anyway) with sustained winds of around 25-35 mph and potential gusts up to near 50mph. If anyone wants to get a high groundspeed, tomorrow might be a good day for it. I don't have the forecast for winds aloft, but I'm sure they are above average. I won't be flying as the plane is in annual, but someone can probably set a personal record tomorrow. Or if, you have access to a 152 or a 172, you may be able to fly backwards!

That was one of the items to replace on my plane during the current annual. One side had a hole and birds for sure (and probably mice) had been getting into the airframe). If there is a hole and you are based anywhere near an open field I would suggest sealing it with either a new boot or figure out something.

You were correct, there is no problem with the Prop Governor whatsoever - just cold oil as you suggested. As for the annual, there are a couple of items that it was time to replace - rubber biscuts in the suspension system (these were from 1984), and a copule of hoses. Besides that, the plane is in pretty good shape (knock on wood). I was actually under the plane on creeper with Tommy (If you know Freeway Aviation and the Mooney Service Center there, you should know Tommy) showing me everything they take a look at during the Annual. This being my first annual, it was pretty neat. I'm also glad that it won't be too expensive an annual.

Findings of the Type S conversion? I wish I could have been flying this weekend - my plane is in the middle of its annual. It was 65 degrees in Maryland today. And for those who don't know what "GINA" is, or if you know and want to see the video, here is the link for the explanation: http://jalopnik.com/395588/bmw-gina-light-visionary-model-revealed-creepy It's actually a really neat idea where the skin of the car is like an elastic cloth as oppose to metal so that it can change shape as needed for different missions, configurations, and aspects. It's worth watching, maybe in 20 years we'll see a production car with some sort of evolution of "GINA" built in.

FYI - Chris Bangle is leaving BMW The article copied below has some decent information. Word out of Munich this morning is that Chris Bangle, 52, the U.S.-born, Art Center-trained designer who has shaped BMW styling since 1992, is leaving the company to pursue other design work "beyond the automotive industry," according to a company statement. So ends the tenure of a man who is certainly among the most controversial and derided car designers in history, a man whose name became synonymous with a kind of artsy over-reach and peculiar, consensus-of-one design vocabulary. Bangle will forever be remembered for the 2002-08 7-series (E65) trunk lid, a prominent and distracting form nicknamed the Bangle Butt (pictured right). The trunk lid, however, was as much Adrian Van Hooydonk's work as Bangle's. Hooydonk, 44, will succeed Bangle as BMW's chief of global design. Far more egregious, in this critic's view, was Bangle's championing of the so-called "flame-surfacing" design language imprinted on the BMW Z4 sports car (2002-present), a look that I said at the time "has less the leap and flicker of fire than the loose luff of wet canvas." The oddly intersecting accent lines seemed to utterly stop visual forward motion and, when translated to the new BMW 1-series, suggested the car had somehow broken its frame. Bangle's determination to educate critics on the virtues of flame surfacing never paid off. That said, in the Bangle years, BMW's global sales grew dramatically, and I expect that was part of the reason the company's board stood by him. It's an open secret in the car business that after the controversies surrounding the Z4 and 7-series, Bangle was demoted up in 2003, from head of BMW brand design to the global design chief for BMW Group, overseeing but not quite leading the designs of BMW Mini, Rolls-Royce and BMW brand. In recent years, the fire of flame surfacing has been put out and BMW cars exhibit a more determined and sober styling. And it's interesting to note that Bangle joins a growing list of celebrity car designers -- Henrik Fisker (formerly of BMW and Aston Martin) and Frank Stephenson (formerly of Mini, Fiat-Ferrari) -- who quit their global sinecures at the peak of their powers. Bangle's many critics tend to oversimplify the process of car design, which is never an inspired brush-to-canvas moment but rather an agonizing slog through a million compromises dealing with the most debilitating minutiae, such as country-by-country legal restrictions on headlamp height, the cost per unit of this piece of trim or that, or dealing with the myriad immovable "hard points" that come with platform- and parts-sharing. It is also a highly collaborative effort, in which the head of design gets the credit or blame regardless of who held the pen originally. Considering what a miserable, rear-guard action car design is, it's perhaps not surprising that its most aesthetically ambitious stars give up in frustration. Other designers -- Philippe Starck comes to mind -- have more talent and imagination than can find expression in one product line or another, and perhaps Bangle will start designing buildings, boats, lamps or tableware. But it's unlikely that the car business will ever again see a single auteur with the power to so utterly shape a global brand. Bangle will be missed. For your entertainment, we've compiled a little Bangle retrospective. -- Dan Neil

I'm hoping you are right. I'll find out as soon as I get a call from the shop about my annual. Thanks for the reply.

I may have noticed an issue with my prop governor and would appreciate any input. My aircraft is '67 M20F with a three bladed prop installed about 100 hours ago. The engine has about 150 hours on it. I noticed this issue during my last three flights. The air temperature at start was between 40 and 50 degrees F. I have no pre-heating equipment for the aircraft and do not start the engine under 40 degrees. During run-up, when I cycle the propeller, it drops, and is slow to respond back up to the 1700 rpm. The RPMs stop falling as soon as I place the propeller into the full forward position, but it takes quite a few more seconds until the needle creeps back up to 1700 RPM (usually very slow from 1500 to 1700). It speeds up after a few cycles (once warmer oil has replaced the cooler oil), but still not to the point where I feel it should be. I asked the shop and instructor about it, and all parties stated it was good to fly, but to have it looked at during the upcoming annual. I put the plane in for annual this week (I'm keeping my fingers crossed) but wanted to know what may be causing this. Was it the cold weather, or am I looking at a real potential problem? I figure its not a seal because there is no oil leak. The engine barely burns any oil at all. It’s just slow to respond coming back up to the preset RPM when cycling the propeller. I would have given more numbers and exact maintenance history, but the shop currently has all of the logs and records. Also, there was no mention of this issue during the prebuy inspection and I didn’t even start to notice it until recently. Thanks!

I agree, the BMW paint scheme on the Type S is ugly. And frankly, so is the current 5 series BMW. That's why I also love my e39 M5 - It's a sleeper with its classic looks and makes me smile all the way to work, or when I head out to see my Mooney! That being said, I'd love an Acclaim Type S but am very happy with my '67 M20F.

Since I currently have an F model, and most likely would need a 201 style cowl for the turbo, I'd probably be out. Let me know however once you figure out the pricing. I'm also considering the LoPresti cowl instead if we can get that cost down. If I do the new cowl, I'd repaint as well. And with the paint, cowl, and conversion to a J clone from my F, that would be a hefty amount before the TN. For that amount, I should just sell the plane, and put the extra money (additional 35K-50K) into a 231 or a TN 201. Most likely, I won't repaint, will put in a Garmin 430W, and wait until a deal arrives on either a used RayJay Turbo or we make a deal on the LoPresti cowl. Then it would be time to repaint. My Moony could use a paint job, but I don't plan to paint it until I can get a hanger to open up.

I would be interested. On January 21, 2009 (just about 8 days ago) I received an email from Gary Kay at LoPresti letting me know that the price for the Mooney Cowl is now $12,500 (originally $16,000.). Obviously the economy is affecting them, and they may just lower the cost for the group discount. Does anyone know the price for a 201 style cowl? I haven't really done a ton of research yet, but if someone already has, that would be great. I have an F Model, so I would need the extra work, but if we can get him to dramatically reduce that price, I would be very interested.

I've seen TN M20Fs out there that are not modified with the J Cowl or windsheild. Are those kits still available? Do they not make them anymore? Costs?

I would probably be in for a group order at an extremely discounted rate as well. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense considering the current market value of my M20F. Are there any book speed for a M20F with this TN Kit? The J according to a previous post by mooney205kd was: An owner with one of these in his 201 posted numbers of 174KTAS at 9.8 GPH in his, FL130 -Seth

Mooney.com is back up!!

Would you realistically live in an airpark community? How far would you be willing to move from your current location to do so? 20 miles? 40 miles? 3 States? etc . . . What amenities would you want? Golf Course? Clubhouse? Gas station? Restuarants? Drug store? Gated? What would your runway requirements be? 2000' Grass? Paved? 3000' 4000' 5500'? How far North / South would you be willing to live? I realize these questions may be a bit haphazard, but I'd like to know everyone's opinions. Thanks, -Seth

What is the shortest field and most narrow field you have comfortably (or not so comfortably) operated from? I'm based at Freeway airport in Maryland - W00. The runway is 2400' x 40.' The field closest to my home KGAI - Montgomery County / Gaitherburg Airpark is 4000' x 75.' I trained there initially, and then also trained at LZU - Lawrenceville in Georgia, as well as PDK - Peachtree - Dekalb in Georgia (four runways varying in length and width - but large - way more than I needed for the 172 at the time). I base the aircraft at Freeway because the people are great (Stan, Tommy, Mike), there's a Mooney Service Center on the field, and its less expensive for a comperable tie down. The drive is about 20 minutes longer each way though from my home. The reason I ask is that I may be traveling to a location where the runway is 2000' x 25.' I'm not worried so much at the 2000' distance, but instead the 25' width. It's paved (I've never flown out of a grass strip) and as long as I operate out of where I am based (Freeway) its not something I'm too worried about, but I want to know the smallest airports Mooney pilots have operated from. I have heard of but have never seen in person a 20' wide strip that was privately owned and paved. From what I have noticed while flying, the more narrow the runway, for some reason the better you are at tracking the centerline I fly a '67 M20F with a three bladed prop and a relatively young engine. -Seth

Hello to everyone on MooneySpace. My name is Seth and this past July I fulfilled my life long dream and purchased my first airplane. N9567M is a 1967 M20F. The previous owner over the past three years installed a factory remanufactured engine, a new three blade propeller, and a new interior. He then decided he wasn’t flying enough and I was lucky enough to have another deal on a Mooney fall through at about the same time. It has speed brakes installed, the cowl enclosure, a storm scope, new radio, new transponder, and the easy to maintain Johnson Bar landing gear. The panel is pre six pack, and I do plan to install a 430w at some point in the next two years. There is no autopilot, and I did install a Garmin 496 that I plan to hook up to the 430 once installed. I plan to install a preheater of some sort so I can go flying next winter without worrying about cold starts. Since July I’ve flown about sixty hours and am very pleased. I’m based at Freeway Airport in Maryland (W00 – inside the DC ADIZ) and the Mooney Service Center at the field is top notch (I’d recommend them to anyone in the Mid-Atlantic region). I travel a lot for business and have been able to fly myself quite often since acquiring the Mooney. I look forward to posting here as opposed to simply reading on other forums. Update: It's been a quick three years of ownership and I sold N9567M in August 2011 after purchasing N1165N, a 1983 M20J Missile 300 - The Missile is amzing. Autopilot, JPI 830, Garmin 430w interconnected to an Aera - very happy with the aircraft so far. I overhauled the engine as part of the purchase. It was heartsickening to sell 67M, but 65N is quite an aircraft. I'm now based at KGAI in Maryland.