MICKEY

If you have foreflight, you can use their new document binder and your drop box and place it in Foreflight. Thats what I do. I have a hard copy and an easy electronic copy. How do you like the 67?

Do you have a Flight stream 210? Or new PMA like a 450a or B?

Thanks for the update. I do have both Autopilot and use ADS-B in/out does that help me?

Can anyone enlighten me about the GTX 345 software upgrade and how it relates to the Garmin G5? I’m not an engineer, but it seems like a useful software upgrade.

@Danb I'm moving over to the West T's this week. Currently I'm over at Dassault. Great place to hangar but want my own hangar. Great FBO if you're in ILG.

@larryb has a good point. But this also is variable with Loan vs cash only. I had this same question 2 years ago. I was looking at 182RG's at that the time, great aircraft and fit my mission. Then I flew in a M20C and thought hell, what a great aircraft. I thought about a M20F/J. For the price of a nice C172, I could get a M20F. For the price of a 182RG I could get a M20J. Getting the most aircraft for the money in the $60-90k range is a decked out F or a barebones J. Cruise speed difference is 5-10kts In retrospect I would consider a great J airframe with crappy panel as the G3x or G500 txi and GFC 500 are great opportunities for a great price. for $50k you can have a brand new panel. If you're flying Cross country in a Mooney you'll want a nice panel and the extras.

@201er Can I also get on the NJ Mooney Group! I'm also based at KILG and have used Dave at Airmods! Great shop! @Danb Where on the field are you at KILG? Would love to see your Mooney and Lets do a flyout!

The post last week that I started fixed my problem. I now GP for LPV as well as ILS. That said, if you only have a 430, not a 430W, you will not get Glideslope Precision. Thanks Marauder! https://mooneyspace.com/topic/29270-dual-g5-and-lpv-vs-ils/

Flew tonight. After making that change and the Glideslope was spot on. Thanks for your help.

You’re a Saint! Where are you out of? I owe you a beverage of your choice.

I was flying the KESN RNAV 28 and KILG RNAV 01. I had no messages and everything was nominal. Before, at, and after the FAF No GP was displayed with LPV showing on the 430w.

Went flying today with another mooniac, and was having difficulty with the Glide Slope on the G5's. From the IAF to the FAF on LPV approaches, I had no difficulty and the Garmin 430W was showing LPV. As I passed the FAF, the Glide slope did not transition to standard vertical guidance and remained with " No GP" (or No Glideslope Precision), without an indicated. The LNAV function continued to work. It even showed LPV on the HSI G5, just No GP. We tried this on two approaches today. The ILS worked just fine and showed LNAV and GS without a problem. And yes all the data on the 430W is current and up to date, including Nav Data and Terrain. Thoughts on the cause of this? Is this a G5 issue? Is there a wiring problem from the 430W? As the 430W showed LPV in the Left lower corner I don't think it was a RAIM or GPS source issue. Has anyone else had this issue?

This is a great expression of what I, and I think many consumers on Mooney Space are thinking. We're trading no ILS approach without GPS for a LVL button and other VNAV capabilities. Many of us have decent or great autopilots. I think that if Garmin said we'd have VOR/ILS capability without GPS input those on the edge would more than likely drop the 20k. I know I would go from about 40% likely to upgrade to 90%+ to upgrade. Good post AviatorEB.

I just went to look but I believe it was a study published in the Aerospace Medicine Journal a few years ago. I will look into it and get back to you. You can PM me. and talk off line about it. Are you a doc as well? and you're based in Jersey?

I was looking for betting integration of G5’s with autopilot and envelope protection. The 3100 does look great just wondering how nice it will play/integrate with G5’s. Ideally the gfc 500, but not sure when, if ever, it will be STCd for the M20F.

Any chance there is an intergratuon with the G5’s and stec 3100? Ie alt, vnav etc?

Just thought I’d put it out there. Would it be worth upgrading from a STEC 60-2 to the trutrak? Thoughts?

I posed this question a month ago and answer I received was.... not with the dual G5’s. My understanding is the aspen is doing a similar AP interface that they have with 55x which will allow vertical guidance and selection via the off 1000.

I have the dual G5’s and GAD29B so I do have gpss. With the STEC 3100 there is gpss as well? Do you know which one it functions on?

Just going to redirect this thread again. Does anybody have any experience with G5’s and STEC equipment? And if Larry Leblanc could weigh in? Will the STEC3100 integrate decently with the dual G5’s ?

After some lovely emails with 1 response from Garmin, I was informed that the M20 F and G models are not actively pursuing an stc for the gfc500. And let me tell you how nice they were about it after dropping 10k in the dual G5’s and extra associated equipment. It was a one-linerresponse. “Garmin has not committed to a completion date for this aircraft addition to the STC AML.Please review the attached link for autopilot certification planning and progress. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/604257.html#additional Thank you for contacting Garmin International.” So if Garmin continues to act like this, I would like to see what other options I have. In retrospect if the gfc500 was not going to be available and or supported in the m20f, I would’ve gone aspen max. Over all the stec 3100 is a GREAT product. I also believe independently the aspen is superior, but I chose Garmin G5’s for integration. However I feel Garmin lead us all on by placing on their their website that the m20 f g j k m n models were in the certification process. So now as I see it, Garmin has reneged on the f and g, as well as any hope on the a b c and d models. Now that that’s off my chest.... My question today is two fold. 1. Will the STEC 3100 work well with the dual G5’s with ALT and speed bugs through the GAD 29B? (Currently have a STEC 60-2). 2. What is the timeline for the STC cert of the 3100 in the M20 F? Is it too late to get in on the servo warranty extension? Thanks in advance. P.S. and as for Garmin.. I like your products but I expected much better things from you guys regarding customer service in this situation.

I am relatively new to owning a Mooney and bough my 67 M20F last year. That said, I have put a few upgrades into the aircraft. There has been some great advice from people here on this Mooneyspace. @Marauder Has helped me make some decisions as well, though I have decided to go a different route than him, his set up is great, and I plan for my set up to be solid as well. Attached are a few pictures. The first is when I purchased my aircraft last year. L->R, Standard 6-pack, STEC 60-2 autopilot, Garmin 496, GNS 430W, JPI 830, and KT-76 transponder. My Vaccum system was decent but I wanted some safety measures. So I upgraded the ADS-b in/out adding the GTX 345 and upgrading the 496 to an Aera 660. This upgrade alone was about 7k installed. Traffic in and out (gtx 345), back up ADHRS (gtx 345), terrain warning (Aera 660) and back up/legal charts (Aera 660). I flew this for a few months and then the vacuum system started to go. So... my gyros started to go and I new I figured an EFIS would be helpful and wished it to be integrated into my current stack. At this time the old aspen was cheap (6-8k+ install) and the new aspen was coming out (10k+install) and there was the E5 (6.5k+install). The dual Garmin G5's were available (5.5k+install). The Dynon system was a thought but seemed too far in the future, without knowing it would be approved for the Mooney. Most importantly I wanted SAFETY. So integration of the EFIS and Autopilot were the most important for me. So I looked more into the system lines, 1. Dual G5's and GFC 500 ~ ($5.5k + $8k + install), 2. Aspen Pro and STEC 3100 ~ ($10k + $12k + install), or 3. Dynon HDX Touch with autopilot (unsure of cost but suspect 18-25k + install). Then I was thinking that we pilots are can screw up and safety is paramount. So integrative EFIS and Autopilot and ability to grow into those systems was the most important to me so.... The Garmin system is totally integrative, redundant and made to be integrated. The Aspen/STEC systems are independent systems and well integrated but expensive and nothing was STC'd or approved at that time, nor was the new Aspen shipping or STEC 3100 approved. The Dynon system IMO is the most integrative but the shipping/approval timeline unknown, and suspect the install would cost more. So... for an immediate/6month fix I came to the conclusion that my preference order was 1st Garmin, 2nd Aspen/STEC, then 3rd Dynon as it was on the distant horizon. And if time was no factor Garmin and Dynon would be neck and neck but would need pricing for Dynon. I also had a lot of Garmin electronics installed at this time with Aera 660, GNS 430W, and GTX 345. So...This is what I went with (Garmin) knowing that I could do two things. 1. Immediately have an solid certified EFIS with certified back up that integrates seamlessly with my current avionics. 2. Upgrade my Autopilot to the GFC 500 with a fully integrated A/P system, have Envelope protection, vertical controls, and TO/GA. So for 15k+ install, probably 25k total, I would have a State of the Art aircraft panel and control in a 50+ yearold airplane. And I could upgrade the navigator and audio panel and there would be NO integration problems. If I wanted the same thing with the Aspen/STEC 3100, it would cost the same or more. probably $25-30k in my estimation. AND it would take atleast 6-12 months longer to be approved and installed. Currently @marauder has a great example and he may upgrade to this Aspen/STEC update update. Both are great systems. So what does this all mean to you. 1. Know your mission (hard IMC vs day vmc). 2. Pick your budget. 3. Set your upgrade priorities (system integration, redundancy, etc) 4. Pick your timeline ( 1-2 months or 12 mos +). 5. Pick a system (STEC/Aspen vs Dynon vs Garmin). 6. Enjoy. If you want the "If I was you..."question answered... I would say Any of the 3 works, but the cost of a new GFC 500 $15k will be much cheaper than a new STEC 3100 install $20-$25k, and the Dynon is not yet determined. But if you can wait.... it might just be the best option for the best price. Good luck and have fun!

Yes there are other options. Agreed it is a good argument that the STEC 3100 is of equal or better performance than the GFC500 and possibly on par with the GFC 600. HOWEVER, it does not yet have the proven system integration and redundancy of GFC 500. And neither are yet certified for the M20 series. Further in my humble opinion, most Mooney owners only want/need the capability/function of the GFC 500. The STEC 3100 is equitable or has more capability than what Mooney owners want/need. So the option is to out purchase their needs with a reasonable price by upgrading to the STEC 3100 with older Servos, OR purchase what they need/want with the GFC 500 new servos at a marginally lower price point but with proven systems integration. As of right now, I have two thoughts. 1. First to market in this arena will gain the Mooney market, and "Hose" the competition. And will ultimately prevail. 2. Best proof of systems integration with the competitor is a close second in driving the margin of win over the competition. (ie. if STEC shows that a Dual G5 system will integrate seamlessly with an STEC 3100 lateral/vertical/VNAV. With either an IFD 440 or GTN 650 navigator). So there are options. And honestly I am not sure which one I am going with for Autopilot. But if the STEC 3100 shows it can fully function in a Dual G5 world, I'd have a tough time saying no STEC. FWIW - Just a medical guy.

I have a call into sureflight. awaiting a quote. I'll call tomorrow.

Devils Advocate here.. Anyone know if you have a Garmin G5 and IFD 440/540 if the Navigator will work with the GFC500?