MikeOH

$360 per month for hangar in southern California I had IR and over 100 hours in a M20B before I bought my 'F'; I'm at $1200 per year $1MM/$100K (I passed on $3200/year for $1MM smooth!) I've owned for two and half years and am around 90 hours/year. All in I've averaged $16K per year. I was shooting for $12K/year...I'm doing a little better this year, so we shall see.

While I gave my smart-ass answer earlier, I'll throw in my 'shopping advice' based on my embarrassingly long search for my first and only, so far, airplane. The advantage of my long search was that I looked at a ton of Mooneys! By the time I saw the one I bought, I was pretty good at ruling out the dogs. Which in my price range (<$40K three years ago), were the majority, I'm afraid. I was looking for an airplane that I could fly and enjoy; NOT a work in progress. So, in my OPINION, in order, here are my criteria in order of importance: 1) Recent use: I didn't even bother with a plane that was even 1 year out of annual. I wanted to see a minimum of 50 hours/year for the last 3-5 years. Meeting this criteria is harder than you would think. Many planes just sit. BAD BAD BAD! 2) Hangared: You can tell if the plane has been hangared for most of its recent past. Outside is just plain hard on equipment. Yes, it can be successfully done with proper maintenance and upkeep. But, frankly, in this price range outside planes are not going to have been cared for that well. At least that was my experience. Hangared planes also are an indicator that the owner was willing/had the money to maintain the plane. 3) Maintenance: What do the logs reflect? One line annuals, or a detailed list of items addressed? How about between annuals, any entries, or nothing between annuals being done? Pull the cowl. Clean, neat, hoses in good shape, etc. Or, chicken wire and bubble-gum? Again, did the owner have the coin to properly maintain the plane...or did it sit outside for a long period with little money spent before the owner got tired of the expense? I found this to be VERY common, unfortunately. 4) Equipment: Does it have avionics you can live with? If not, you are looking at HUGE money (relative to this price range) that you will NOT get back when you sell. 5) Paint/Interior: Don't be too picky! You will pay a premium for perfect paint and interior. More important, you may pass on an otherwise excellent plane. Further, the interior is something you can do yourself. Just decide if you can live with paint condition and scheme. As long as the paint wasn't badly oxidized (unlikely if the plane meets criteria 2) and/or really badly chipped I was happy. 6) Engine: Yup, last on the list. If criteria #1, and #3, are met you are likely to be able to fly for a while without serious engine issues regardless of TSMOH. Second, the price is/can be negotiated based on engine hours; buy right, and engine hours aren't that critical. I was actually nervous with planes advertised with low TSMOH; did they just do a cheap overhaul to sell? In my case, I bought with an already over TBO engine (and, priced accordingly); that was two and half years, and 200 hours ago. The previous owner had flown 100 hours per year (this is a very uncommonly high usage for a single owner pleasure plane) for 13 years. TBO is somewhat arbitrary; do you rebuild your car engine at a certain number of miles, or on condition? Regardless, engines are a big unknown and you should be financially prepared to overhaul at any time (including right after purchase) or you will end up with a plane sitting, costing you money (especially hangared) and devaluing. Honestly, that fact was one of the reasons I shopped for so long; to be in a position that I could afford the $30K a proper overhaul would cost. Good luck!

Run Forrest, run! (I guess it should be Run Mark, run!)

Thanks, Paul! Bunch of stuff you discussed that NEVER would have occurred to me...like blade stretch at high rpm. Awesome answer

Paul, Can you please elaborate a bit more? Questions/thoughts that come to my never had/flown a turbo mind: 1) What are the real wear factors for a turbo? I would think temperature (TIT) would be the crucial one. Not so convinced that higher rpm in and of itself is a huge factor as long as sufficient cool oil is being supplied to the shaft bearing. 2) Why would the turbo be working 'harder' at altitude if the compressor is working with a lower air density? Sure, it will spin faster to get the required boost but, again, is the higher rpm an important factor in wear/reliability? Thanks in advance!

Have you tried 100LL? I know those aren't fuel stains, but it might be worth a try.

Thanks. I missed the "do not need" if it's a CAR-3 aircraft. But, I still need a copy of whatever cert they do have, correct? That is, I can't just put in carpet with NO burn reference at all, right?

That's the trade off I'm evaluating, roll my own with automotive wool carpet and get a burn cert myself, or buy from an aviation vendor at a premium price. If I can get a remnant, like you did, for $100 then I'm done. But, if I have to fork over $500 for min buy...

And, No extra charge for that

Hmm, it was my understanding that you can source from anyone as long as you obtain an appropriate burn cert (of course, that cost may negate the savings). Also, I thought wool is self extinguishing; it will inherently pass a burn test. Which makes me wonder if you even need a burn cert for wool?

Dead spot. Overshoot a bit, then a touch back. Works for me.

Thanks. As owner, do I count as a legal "someone" to sign off? I had thought so under part 43 owner allowed, but after your post I'm now uncertain.

Good to know; thanks. So, is there a reason not to move the crank while a cylinder is off? Or, am I misinformed on that, as well?

WARNING! Thread creep! Question: I believe one of the risks is moving the crank while cylinders are off and having a bearing shift/spin in the case (loss of clamping force when cylinder through bolts are removed) presumably resulting in a mis-aligned oil hole. With auto engines the bearings have 'tabs' that lock them in place...it sounds like aircraft engines don't have them. Why not?

A thought to consider...I believe Mike Busch doesn't recommend doing that; read up on his thoughts on cylinder work in general. I think he views cylinder work as one of the riskiest maintenance operations. https://www.savvyaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/articles_eaa/EAA_2014-06_cylinder-work-be-afraid.pdf

Dang! That looks like a pretty decent deal, right there! If everything checks out, I'd be all over it....man if I didn't already have my F. (The 'fresh annual with sale' always disturbs me...wonder how little it's flown in the last couple of years??)

Just an FYI. Laser refused to perform my annual because my engine is over TBO. Top Gun got my biz; they seem to believe in on-condition inspection and aren't as scared of lawyers, I guess

Looks great, flyboy! Could be the motivation I need to get 'er done.

I'm planning on wool as well. I already have some kind of foil backed fire insulation under the carpet that is still in good shape; I'm going to leave it. I'm going to try going to a local auto upholstery shop and seeing how much to cut for me. If too pricy, I'll just buy the material from them.

That is EXACTLY what I'm going to do...especially after looking at SCS pricing...YOWZER! There's got to be all of $50 of carpet from the local auto upholstery shop being used. I'm not afraid of cutting carpet to size using the old ones as templates.

Which p?

Sorry, but the picture of that GIANT tug, and LOOONG tow bar, hooked to a Mooney scares the CRAP out of me

Yeah, if I see my wife with a pair of scissors in her hand....

DuBois Aviation at Chino (CNO) in Southern California has a rental M20B. $148/hr. http://duboisaviation.com/rental/

Both your points are true. Welcome to the internet