Ragsf15e

I’m currently breaking in a new cylinder too, but in an io-360. Mine was noticeably warmer than the others, but nothing like yours. I’m seeing like 380 in cruise while the others are 330. I have the bonus of very cold air temperatures for breaking it in (Eastern Washington in winter). What kind of cylinder is it? Mine is chrome. so one last thing to possibly just glance at... make sure you don’t have a small exhaust leak on that cylinder or the one next to it heating up the area near the probe.

At least for me, run up hasn’t been an issue. It does skip a beat, but no bang, noise, vibration, nothing. When I did the LOP mag check at 65% power, that was more exciting. Next time I’ll try their technique of pulling power after checking the second mag. For some reason, the shutdown check also got a bang. I’ll try to see if I can find something that works for that too.

The attitude function in FF only works with an outside ahrs attitude source. It will give a giant red x without a connected ahrs. So it’s not a function of working off the iPad accelerometers. Supposedly these ahrs have a mtbf of 10,000hrs or greater (which I have no source for). I think we should all thank Skip for having his fail so soon which ensures everyone else’s will last 20,000 hours!

I have a Surefly on an IO360. Its real nice. Better LOP operation, starts really easy. The “afterfire” thing is real though, at least on mine. During runup at 1700rpm it’s just a slight skip. I did a LOP mag check at 11,000’ and 65% power... it was a loud bang. I also got a somewhat smaller bang when I checked the key off position to make sure the engine would shut down at idle power. The issue is that the Surefly takes like 5 ms to start sparking after being shutdown. When you’re checking the Surefly, then go back to both, all is well, there is always a mag firing. When you check the Right mag and then cycle back to both, you pass through the “Surefly only” position on the ignition and it takes 5ms before you get a spark. Depending on power setting, it may be a bang. This is with a traditional ignition switch. I do like it though. I need to do a few more flights and collect more data, but high altitude LOP seems to have a measurable reduction in ff or increase in a couple knots.

On my last flight I did get that CO alarm from the sensorcon but it was only 40ppm which is higher than normal on the ground but not a huge increase (I usually have <20 on the ground and 0 in the air). When I put her away this afternoon I wiped down the cowl and there is a very light exhaust stain along the aft edge of the lower cowl on the affected side. Tough to see unless you’re specifically looking for it. I guess this has been one more example of an engine monitor proving its worth. It was directly responsible for showing me a problem existed and partially identified the exact problem.

Good to know, thanks for that helpful insight!

I see what you did there!

Solved. I really thought the induction leak was the best hypothesis, especially since the problem wasn't really visible at full power, only idle (for the most part - I did eventually find a few anomalies at full power). Did you know that 3 guys (2 x A & Ps and 1 x Pilot/owner) standing next to the engine staring at the #4 cylinder can't see the exhaust studs & nuts? It takes bending down lower to look up at them which I did this weekend when I went to look for an induction leak. Below is what I found. I looked at the ground run after annual and the first flight after annual. The EGT is just fine until midway through the first flight when there are a few weird excursions. Then it's always a bit wonky at low power for the next two flights and a ground run before I realized there was a problem. The last flight I got a Carbon Monoxide alarm from my Sensorcon while taxiing in (40ppm). Way higher than usual on the ground. I still was showing 0 in flight. I didn't start to put that together with the engine data anomalies until this weekend. Based on the data from the ground run and first flight, I believe the nuts, washers and star lock washers were there at one point, but weren't torqued or fell off for some other reason. All have been checked again. This was a little scary after the fact. Rags

@Bob - S50 if im not mistaken, you live in that area, where do you have your airplane annual/maintenance? Im in eastern Washington and shopping for a new shop... Advanced in Troutdale is sounding good so far.

That’s what I keep leaning towards. I’m gonna take a look at it this weekend and then check more thoroughly for leaks with my mechanic on Monday. Probably swap the probe too just to be sure.

I’ll see if I can upload and share it from saavy. The Gami spread has been consistently 0.4 for the last couple flights, so not bad, and the engine runs smoothly LOP. I have Gami injectors and Tempest fine wires. The injectors are in the correct locations and the spark plugs tested ok at the annual last month. They looked ok when we pulled them yesterday. It just seems like the lower power (taxi and ground time) is where it’s erratic.

I did do that on the last flight. I did it LOP per the Savvy guidance and it was fine. The ignition doesn’t seem to be the problem. I’m open to any possibilities, but if it was a spark issue, I think the egt would be hotter. Right now I’m starting to think probe issue, or intake / exhaust leak? Maybe the roughness was my imagination staring at faulty egt data? *btw, if you do an in flight mag check with a Surefly, even a new one with the new “quicker start up”, maybe you should reduce power before going from Surefly off, through mag off, back to both. Loud pop that will get your attention. At 1700rpm during the normal ground mag check, it’s just a quiet skip. At 2500rpm it’s more exciting.

My F model just came out of annual. I have a new cylinder (#2), Surefly mag and a newly IRAN right mag. The only cylinder that’s not been recently overhauled is #4. It was running fine coming into annual, but my IA noted some oil in the bottom and some deposits on the exhaust valve and stem. Compression was fine. So I flew the plane 3 times to break in #2 and I’ve noticed slightly rough idle. I was thinking “morning sickness” but then I noticed #4 egt. It’s really low at low power. It’s also erratic. It seems to clean up for the mag check and during flight, but comes back at low power. Today we borescoped #4, looks ok, same deposits but valves open and close fine. Compression check was just fine. Plugs look good. IA took rocker box cover off and springs were ok, valve didn’t seem to “wiggle”. What am I looking at? Failed egt probe? Maybe exhaust or induction leak to #4? I looked at jpi data from a couple months ago and it was fine. This one was only on the ground, but is a good example. RPM between 1000 and 1600. This is startup. Mag check and takeoff. Egt is erratic at low power.

Not at my airport. 100LL is $6.00/ gallon!! $5.75 if you self serve it. Luckily, KSFF is pretty close to a bunch of Idaho airports with reasonable prices and good restaurants. I almost never buy gas at home. 64 gallon tanks are awesome!

Awesome, I was hoping that’s what you meant! I totally agree the more intuitive designs are better, but sometimes it takes a while to get there even if the underlying capability is there. The 430W is a very capable navigator but it was developed while you were an infant and released when you were 5. It is what it is. If I have my choice, the more intuitive (IFD or GTN) would be great but, like you, I’m still gonna read the manual. A lot of times it’s just how well a certain design philosophy meshes with the way we think. I fly a G1000 airplane for work, and I’ve been super confused each time I flew in a Honeywell FMS equipped jet with similar capability - even with practice and study. iPhone vs Android.

So you guys were right, no damage except to my ego. Small scratch on both gear doors where they pressed against the cowl flaps. Ugh, why do I have to keep learning lessons that I already should know?

Hah! That made me laugh... “It almost requires that you read the manual before even attempting to use it.” Dang whippersnappers (said tongue in cheek and with a smile)!! Ok, maybe I’m a crabby old ATP/CFI/CFII/Fighter Pilot, but yes, you should definitely read the manual before attempting to use aviation technology. That includes whatever documentation there is for the airplane, avionics, propellor, regulations, etc. Are you gonna memorize it? No. But read it? Yes. I realize your phone and car aren’t designed like that, but they are designed for the lowest common denominator and you’re a pilot, you aren’t the lowest common denominator anymore. Hopefully you’re a professional pilot regardless of what type of licenses or ratings you have. So yes, by all means, read the manual, practice using the 430 on the sim Garmin provides, practice in the airplane. Do not expect to sit down in a general aviation airplane and magically know how everything will operate. You will quickly find out how your assumptions and lack of knowledge get you into trouble or hurt someone. Rant over. And I really mean no offense.

Thanks, I sure hope you’re right about learning something... and it would be nice if there’s no damage, but I still feel terrible about it.

I didn’t hear anything abnormal but that could be my Bose anr working. I did do a few speed runs at different altitudes and power settings as I was breaking in the cylinder and I was wondering why I was about 3kts slower than before the annual. I’m pretty sure I now know why.

Ok, from the beginning, this is my fault as the PIC... I did the walk around. My F Just came out of annual. Lots of stuff done... Surefly, other mag IRAN, new overhauled cylinder, G5s x 2, etc. So I go pick up the airplane to do the ground engine run as called for by lycoming and then fly it to start breaking it in. My mechanic is there, releases it to me, we both go through the engine carefully after the ground engine run and then I go fly it. 2.5 hours. High power 75%+ as called for in the break in instructions. Fast. After retuning mechanic looks it over carefully again for leaks. Here comes the good part... Next time I go flying, it’s breezy and I notice both nose gear doors flapping in the breeze. They are disconnected, bolts are in the rod ends with nuts on them but not connected. Holy $&%#! They were never reconnected after the annual. So other than a scratch where it looks like the doors rubbed against the cowl flap next to it, where else should I be looking for damage? The piano hinge has some play but I think it was similar before? I plan to be with my mechanic as we jack up the airplane and swing the gear next week. Its a sick feeling in my stomach as I think I could have jammed the doors in the nose gear somehow but instead I got lucky.

I’m just on the other side of the state from you. Job #1 for you might be finding an available and affordable hangar. It’s a difficult task depending on what airport you plan to use. Especially in a wet/salty climate, a hangar is the best option for the airplane to stay in good shape.

Here’s the deal... the C, E and Fs are ~50+ years old. They definitely won’t be perfect. Even well cared for examples will need things fixed. If there’s a prebuy and nothing is found, it wasn’t a good inspection. Have an MSC or experienced Mooney mechanic look it over carefully for show stoppers like spar corrosion or maybe an engine that’s toast. Pucks and fuel tanks can be repaired with money, so that’s just a question of purchase price and your own plans. They will almost all have some issues with plastics and or paint. On the plus side, they aren’t that hard to work on, efficient, fast, and they are yours.

I didn’t know about either of the mods to #1 or #2, thanks. Is there a reason to want them closer together or is it fine as long as they are all 275-350 ish?

I was hoping to avoid taking off the plastic emer gear cover before being prepared to fix the CB, but that might have to happen. I did my parts manual research and found the number but that doesn’t seem to exist. I did find an old thread where @Marauder said he replaced his and was hoping he or @M20Doc might just know it. Alright, I’ll get some pictures.

I have a 68F and it’s similar. Mine might have a bigger spread actually. At one point I had my cht probes swapped to see if that changed it but it didn’t. #1 gets real good airflow, #3 doesn’t. Weird thing for me is that #2 is pretty close to same temp as 3, yet it’s in the front like much cooler 1. The airflow is crazy in there. I have a lasar cowl closure which may or may not make a difference.