Bob - S50

I am not worried about the engine not restarting. I might be slightly concerned about an overspeed when it does. By pulling the throttle back and the mixture to cutoff before I switch tanks I will ...prevent... an immediate relight. I can then control that relight by setting a moderate airflow rate with the throttle and using the mixture to get the right mixture for that restart. Once everything is under control and within limits I can then reset it for cruise. Should only take a few seconds longer. Thanks for the input though. Bob

If you're bored, don't read it. I have not yet done so but I plan to run both tanks dry on separate solo flights or with one of my partners (not with my wife on board). We have an FL202 digital fuel gauge and I want to see two things: 1) Will the gauge get all the way to zero before the engine quits and 2) assuming it does, how long will the engine run after that before it quits? Based on draining the tanks for calibrating the gauge, and how much we got out of the sump after the boost pump quit pumping, I'm thinking it may run up to 5 minutes after the gauge says zero. My POH says for an Air Start I should: 1) Prop full forward 2) Switch tanks 3) Mixture cutoff 4) Check fuel pressure (boost if needed) 5) Throttle 1/4 open 6) Mags both 7) Mixture slowly toward rich until it starts 8) re-establish power settings. However, I think for reasons mentioned above I'll probably switch #2 and #3. However, from a 'flow pattern' point of view which I've grown accustomed to in my line of work it might make it easier to flow left to right and top to bottom twice like this: Throttle 1/4, Prop forward, Mixture cutoff, Tank switch, Pressure check/establish, Mags both, Mixture advance, Power set. I don't see that it would hurt anything to do it in that order.

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots. Making wise decisions like yours should put you well on your way to living to be an old pilot.

I've done a lot of IFR, but none in the Mooney yet. Once I do, I'll probably use the same thing I've been using for years. It depends.... 1. If I was there right now could I fly an approach? If no, don't go regardless of the forecast. I know of a plane that diverted emergency fuel because the forecast did not require an alternate but when they arrived it was still zero zero. 2. Is the weather at my destination and alternate as good or better than forecast? 3. Is the weather coming up or going down? Depending on may answers to #2 and #3, I may or may not go. Worse than forecast and going down? Stay home. Better than forecast but going down? Require for more ceiling and visibility margin. Worse than forecast but going up? Add a little extra margin. Better than forecast and going up? Press on.

"LOP HP percentage is determined by fuel flow. GHP x 15 / 200 gives you the percentage for an IO 360 engine. If you're like me and don't do math well in your head, you can do what I did. I fly with an iPad and I downloaded a free ap called Big Calculator." The MAPA Safety Foundation gives an easy way to calculate approximate power setting. Add the MP in inches to the RPM in hundreds. For example 23" + 2400 RPM = 47. For the the J they say 47 is about 65% power. 44 = 55%, 50 = 75%. For the C, E, and F I think the 'number' is 46. 43 = 55%, 46 = 65%, 49 = 75% You can easily check this with your POH. Just pick a few altitudes then see how much MP it takes at each RPM to get the power setting you are interested in.

When you are looking at aircraft, don't forget to ask about the useful load. It will vary from 850 to 1000+ pounds. Makes a big difference. Unless you are filing IFR with an alternate, 50 gallons will usually get you as far as your posterior will want to sit. That being the case subtract 300 (technically 291) pounds from the useful load to figure out how many pounds of people and bags you can carry. Decide how much useful load you need to get your normal mission done.

Just one thing to keep an eye on. Be sure to ask about the useful load. You'll find J's with a useful load anywhere from 850# to just over 1000#. That's a huge difference. Usually, the planes with low useful load get that way because the owner has added items you may not care about like fully articulating seats, pre-heaters, anti-ice, speedbrakes, long range fuel tanks, stormscope, fancy (but heavier) interior, thicker windows, and on and on. Figure out which ones YOU would like. If the plane has a low useful load and a bunch of add ons you don't care about, keep looking. When our group went looking for a plane, if it didn't have a useful load of at least 950# we didn't even bother looking at it. I'm a fairly new Mooney owner myself but I've developed a rule of thumb for fuel planning with our '78 J. I'll use DTC DUAT to flight plan using actual winds, but I need to give it a starting fuel. Since I flight plan at 155 KTAS and 9.3 GPH (LOP) I start with (VFR) 6 gallons for every 100 miles of distance plus 15 gallons for start, warmup, taxi, takeoff, climb and a 10 gallon reserve. Depending on the individual flight (weather, terrain, sight seeing, traffic congestion, etc) I'll add anywhere from 1 to 5 gallons of contingency fuel. A 450 mile flight no wind I'd plan on 4.5 x 6 + 15 = 42 gallons plus my contingency. That's 245 pounds of fuel which leaves me with 715 pounds (our useful load is 960) for people and bags on a 3 hour flight. If I had the imaginary 850# useful load plane, I could only carry 605#. Figuring on filling the baggage compartment with 120 pounds of 'stuff' and you could only carry 485# of people.

If you are thinking non-certified it will probably be a couple years before you can do that. Depends on if you want to wait that long or not and then live with any limitations the FAA decides to impose. If you do want to go that route, you might also look at Trio http://trioavionics.com Prices range from $1800 to $3100. I think that includes the servos. However, once again, you may not install it yet because it may not be used on certified aircraft at this time.

I use Naviator on my Samsung Android product. I am mostly happy with it. Not perfect but does what I need. http://naviatorapp.com/ You can have a 30 day free trial. $35/year gets you sectionals, low charts, high charts, and approach plates. It even includes the Grand Canyon chart. Moving map works on sectionals, low charts, and high charts. You pick which charts/plates you want. The more you pick, the longer it will take to update at each revision. If you want moving map on approach plates its another $75/year for a subscription with Seattle Avionics.

Why would you go outside when it is -10? Stay inside, start a fire, play with Mom.

OK, here comes the geek in me. First the formula, then the explanation and assumptions. $/Gallon savings to break even = ((D/17 + (A * .14) + .8) * P)/N Ouch ! D = Extra miles you fly out of your way to get the cheaper gas. A = Altitude you will cruise at in thousands P = Price of the fuel you buy N = Number of gallons purchase Assumptions: Cruise economy = 17 nm/gal Descent fuel saved = 0.1 gallons/1000' of descent Pattern fuel burned = 4 nm @ 6 gph = .3 gal Taxi fuel burned = 10 minutes at 2 gph = .33 gal Takeoff fuel burned = 30 sec @ 18 gph = .15 gal Climb fuel burn in excess of normal cruise burn = .24 gal/1000' of climb Cruise altitude the same before and after the fuel stop Example: Cruise at 3000' and you will fly directly over the airport you will stop at so zero extra miles, you buy 30 gallons and fuel is $6/gal: ((0/17 + (3 * .14) + .8) * 6)/30 = 0.244 You have to save $0.25/gallon to break even Example: Cruise at 8000', fly 30 miles out of your way, buy 40 gallons at $6/gallon: ((30/17 + (8 * .14) + .8) * 6)/40 = .553 You have to save $0.55/gallon to break even

As far as I know, unless you are using the 100 hour inspection method rather than the annual like most of us, there are not very many (if any) regulatory inspection/service/replacement requirements. An occasion AD would be an exception. I believe SB's are optional (but usually a good idea) and TBO's are not mandatory either, just what you can expect under normal conditions (again, in some cases a good idea though). The biggest thing would be when you want to sell the plane and cannot show the potential new owner how many hours the airframe and engine have on them.

I'd say in your case, fill her up! Extra burn should be minimal. I've come to the conclusion that if I need to stop for fuel enroute (say Seattle area Denver area), and there are multiple possible stops ... along the route ... and all other factors being equal (runway, approaches, food availability, etc), go to the cheapest one. However, it is almost never worth the effort of making an unnecessary fuel stop just to buy cheap gas. The extra fuel burned is the fuel used for: miles flown out of the way to get to the airport, pattern and landing, taxi in, start up, taxi out, takeoff, climb back up to altitude, and mileage to get back on course. Unless you are just going a short distance and staying low anyway, you'll burn 1.5 to 3.5 gallons just for the climb. Add the other stuff in and you are probably burning 5 gallons or more. That's $30. If you land short to get the cheap fuel, you probably aren't nearly empty so for most of us we can only take on 30 to 50 gallons. You would have to save $0.60 to $1.00/gallon just to break even! And now, your arrival at your destination is delayed by 30 minutes or so. Not worth it in my opinion. If I waste 30 minutes to save $10, that's not worth it to me (or my wife!). And I'm a cheap pilot!

On the Savvy Mx website there is a resource tab. One of the items is articles written by Mike Busch. One of those articles is on oil and in that article he says that the maker (Turtle Wax) now has to reveal the ingredients. The ones he mentions are a base of petroleum distillate solvent, pig fat, perfume, and red food coloring. Bob

I'll see if I can find the thread. The $300 was outright, no exchange, but it is used and not yellow tagged, just 'serviceable'.

Thanks. We ended up finding a 'serviceable' Weldon for $300. About 1/3 the cost of a new one. Worth a try. For what its worth, the problem we had was that we could turn the pump on and hear it run at high speed but it would not develop any pressure. We tried switching tanks, running fuel through the gascolator, both tanks again. Same result. I'm guessing either the shaft sheared or the impellor came loose.

Thanks for all the info. We found that we were able to reach the aiming screws through the lower right engine cowl flap, however, for large adjustments it was easier for the two of us to just take off the lower cowl. We removed the lens from the front. We loosened the screws on the chrome trim plate (we felt they were used to limit the forward movement of the bulb). They actually have slotted holes to allow forward and aft movement. We then ran the 12 o'clock adjustment screw all the way in and the 8 and 4 o'clock (sideward adjustment) screws out as far as we felt comfortable. We then put it all back together. Definitely is aimed lower now but we have not flown it at night yet to test it out. I also had not seen the info about aligning the filament vertically before we did that so next time up there I'll do that too. Thanks again, Bob

Looking for input. We may need to buy a new fuel boost pump. I'll know more tomorrow. The model for our '78 J is a Weldon 8163A. However it looks like an Andair PX375-PC might work too. It is about $100 cheaper and a pound lighter. Anybody using one? Are you happy with it?

Just a point of reference for you. First, Mike Busch says compression checks are not good indicators of engine condition. The best thing to do would be to do a borescope. It won't tell you about the cam or lifters, but it will tell you about the cylinders and valves. Second, our group bought a J that sat in a hangar in northern CA for 10 years. The engine had about 800 hours on it. The first oil analysis we did had almost every measure in the red, but we expected that from surface corrosion. We changed the oil again at 25 hours and everything was in the green. We changed again at 25 hours and it was all still in the green. We now plan to change the oil every 50 hours. Bob

Good reason to bring an instrument cover. Just put it over the one that is inop. Of bring a sticky pad and put a piece of paper over it.

It comes with a suction cup mount. I plan to attach it to the windshield in the lower left corner.

I'm with you. Being the cheap pilot that I am, rather than spending $2500+ for an electric attitude indicator plus the cost and down time of having it installed; once I have the money I plan to buy the Dynon D1 Pocket EFIS. Current price is $1195. Since it is portable there is no installation cost and no 337. It may not be legal as far as the FAA considers for IFR, but the plane will still have the TC which the Feds will be happy with. In an emergency though, the D1 would make it much easier to get on the ground. Plus it will provide a backup GS, track, and altimeter. And its battery powered. That being the case, worst case (lose vacuum and all electrics) I could use the D1 to fly and my tablet to get to VMC.

I agree with you. Digital is great if you want to know precise information. Not 125, not 130, but 127 KIAS for example. However, I find analog better for detecting trends. And I find trends more important from a safety standpoint. A moving needle on a gauge will catch your eye faster than a digit changing from 127 to 126 to 125 to.... Plus, with a needle, it becomes obvious when it is pointing at 5 o'clock when it should be at 7 o'clock. When the digits on the sliding scale show 90 instead of 135 it won't catch my eye. A mix of both is probably the best of both worlds. Bob

It might just have to do with marketing. When our group was trying to find a Mooney to buy I downloaded a POH for a J. Takeoff and landing data were in the form of graphs that you traced your way through to get your answer. When we got our '78, the takeoff and landing data was in the form of tables, not graphs. The graphs allowed you to adjust for tailwind, the tables do not. Also, our '78 POH has no data for descent planning. Some years do. It may just be what they thought was needed that year. Bob

Nice!