Marauder Posted November 5, 2013 Report Posted November 5, 2013 Just how much Garmin stock do you hold, Peter? Obviously a lot or he has drank the Kool-Aid (and for the record, I made some nice change on the Garmin IPO when I sold in 2007). What is funny is that 20 years ago you could have substituted the phrase "Bendix King" for "Garmin" in the thread above and it would have applicable. As for Garmin "innovation", just remember they innovated on a DoD product. They didn't invent global positioning, they had the foresight to see the civilian application of GPS and took advantage of it. Their timing couldn't have been better either. No smart phones, tablets or any other true portable device to compete with. Fast forward from 1991 and now they are being attacked by those same devices. They are losing market share in the consumer markets and the gorilla is getting riled up. As for aviation products, Garmin is behaving no different than Bendix King did in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. The gold standard was the BK line back then. When my KX-170B died in 1993 I really, really wanted to upgrade to a KX-155 but found that Narco was selling a unit for half the cost. A radio that still is working 20 years later... And just like what happened to Bendix King when Garmin introduced the first certified GPS units and left BK in the dust, the same will happen to Garmin if they don't look at the market drivers. People want integrated solutions and flexibility while maintaining a manageable price point.
fantom Posted November 5, 2013 Report Posted November 5, 2013 One correction, I think....I had a KB fully certified, panel mounted, KLN-90B in 1994. That was before Garmin was offering anyting of note.
Marauder Posted November 5, 2013 Report Posted November 5, 2013 One correction, I think....I had a KB fully certified, panel mounted, KLN-90B in 1994. That was before Garmin was offering anyting of note. I forgot about the 90 series. I should have said the first "moving map" GPS units...
PTK Posted November 5, 2013 Report Posted November 5, 2013 ...People want integrated solutions and flexibility while maintaining a manageable price point. What is an example of an "integrated solution" Chris.
Marauder Posted November 5, 2013 Report Posted November 5, 2013 What is an example of an "integrated solution" Chris. Peter -- For me, I want a GDL-88 to display traffic and weather on my Aspen MFD. Ironically, you can't even display this on the Garmin G500/600 at this time. I want to be able to take my ForeFlight, Garmin Pilot or WingX and download my flight plan into my GTN navigator and push that information back if I make a change on the GTN. I want the panel mounted ADS-B to cross feed my iPad app for weather and traffic as a backup... There is no reason all of this stuff can't talk to each other. The technology exists, it's the willingness of all participants to allow it to happen. Let me ask you this question; would you continue to purchase a PC from a manufacturer who requires you to use their monitor, their printer, their monitor, their mouse and their SD? That's the game Garmin is trying to play...
carusoam Posted November 5, 2013 Report Posted November 5, 2013 Garmin is the new Apple....or old apple.... -a- 1
PTK Posted November 5, 2013 Report Posted November 5, 2013 Well Chris, let's take these one at a time. You don't need the GDL88 because Aspen has the ATX-200. Or do they? At least they have it on their website. (hint: It supposedly only plays with Aspen but unfortunately it's another one of Aspen's fantom products! Not available. Logically then you'd want the GDL88.) Populating a certified panel mount from a handheld is probably not going to happen as per FAA. But you can go the other way. And rumor has it G will enable the Pilot. As far as a panel mounted ADS-B cross feeding an iPad app for weather and traffic it's a matter of time. The whole ADS-B thing is still very fluid and evolving. And as far as your analogy to a PC manufacturer I don't think it applies. We have zillions of choices in PC hardware. In the avionics we're talking about I'm afraid we only have Garmin. And no Garmin didn't create it to be this way. So it's really not that bad. Be thankful to Garmin for bringing real innovation and products to us GA folks at the bottom of the aviation food chain. When King abandoned us Garmin embraced us.
Marauder Posted November 5, 2013 Report Posted November 5, 2013 Since I have never been on a debating team, but always wanted to; my rebuttal... Well Chris, you don't need the GDL88 because Aspen has the ATX-200. Or do they? At least they have it on their website. (hint: It's a fantom product. Not available. Logically then you want GDL88.) The wonderful folks at Garmin also had a fantom product. It was called the GDL-88 which was announced in July 2012 and didn't ship until 2013. I know, because I was planning for my upgrade in July 2012 and was physically in the shop in December 2012. I looked everywhere for that GDL-88; under the tool box, in the owner's desk, under the installation papers for the Aspens, heck, I even looked in the garbage can! No where to be found. Glad I didn't find it. BTW -- when I have the ATX-200 installed I will swing by NJ and give you a lookie Populating a certified panel mount from a handheld is probably not going to happen as per FAA. But you can go the other way. And rumor has it G will enable the Pilot. Sorry, you are incorrect. Aspen sells a non fantom product called the CG50 product that does allow you to port weather from your portable ADS-B antennae to the Aspen MFD. Garmin... not so much... what did you call that Garmin product "a fantom product"? As far as a panel mounted ADS-B cross feeding an iPad app for weather and traffic it's a matter of time. The whole ADS-B thing is still very fluid and evolving. Agree, wow, we actually agree on something. So it's really not that bad. And as far as your analogy to a PC manufacturer I don't think it applies. We have zillions of choices in PC hardware. In the avionics we're talking about I'm afraid we don't. And no Garmin didn't create it to be this way. And we were making so much progress together... You proved my point. With "zillions of choices in PC hardware", the communication permutations could have been endless. However, the market drove common communication hierachy forcing the industry to play nice together. That is why you can plug your SD card from your Dell to your HP to your Mac and still read it. It is also why you can take any USB device and move it from PC to PC with the proper drivers. Garmin doesn't want to standardize unless they see an economic benefit for them (yes, you can interface a G500 through a GAD43 to a Century IV autopilot -- but try to get your connected pilot to talk to a GTN). Instead of taking the high ground and driving integration, they are doing their best to alienate owners like me.
PTK Posted November 5, 2013 Report Posted November 5, 2013 Chris, The GDL88 is out. The "fantom" ATX200 is not. (G-1, A-0) The GDL39 is available and for less money than the theoretical CG50. The "fantom" CG50 is not. (G-2, A-0) You're correct the "fantom" CG50 can theoretically display on an Aspen MFD, but regretfully it's not available. And in case you need help, Garmin technical support lines are answered by human field engineers who will help you and will thank you for calling! (G-10, A-0) You're welcome to come to NJ anytime. Lunch is on me! No need to wait for "fantoms" ATX-200 or CG50 for that matter!
carusoam Posted November 5, 2013 Report Posted November 5, 2013 When is our next fly in? Can we get a BK guy to give a presentation on the 770? Best regards, -a-
Piloto Posted November 5, 2013 Report Posted November 5, 2013 José I would have him email: team@foreflight.com and ask that they give him a call as I'm sure he won't want to email back and forth with them. Or, find somebody at his local airport that can walk him through it as just about every personal pilot is "savvy" with it these days. If you don't have any luck, PM his number and I will be more than willing to help him out over the phone. B Well at least Garmin has a posted telephone number to call. Very handy when you are in the hangar and need help with their products. I don't see why a company concern about product support would not have a phone to call. The Foreflight website does not even show were they are located. Are they in China or India? How can I trust a company in hiding with my credit card? José 1
Marauder Posted November 5, 2013 Report Posted November 5, 2013 Chris, The GDL88 is out. The "fantom" ATX200 is not. (G-1, A-0) It was late. Was supposed to ship in Q4 but didn't ship until calendar year 2013. (G-0, A-0). The GDL39 is available and for less money than the theoretical CG50. The "fantom" CG50 is not. (G-2, A-0) Two different products. The GDL-39 is the portable antennae for the app. The CG50 is the WiFi interface that allows you to display the Stratus portable antennae weather (Garmin's won't work because they won't let it work) on your certified MFD. In other words, you get twice the bang, one antennae and the weather shows on your panel mounted MFD and your iPad. (G-0, A-1). You're correct the "fantom" CG50 can theoretically display on an Aspen MFD, but regretfully it's not available. Peter, Peter, Peter -- I would rather wait and get something that works than pay for something that won't (GDL-88). (G-0, A-2). And in case you need help, Garmin technical support lines are answered by human field engineers who will help you and will thank you for calling! (G-10, A-0) Garmin calls are answered by Call Center people trained to answer technical questions. Aspen calls are answered by Engineers trained to be Call Center people (G-0, A-3). You're welcome to come to NJ anytime. Lunch is on me! No need to wait for "fantoms" ATX-200 or CG50 for that matter! REBUTTALS above... As for lunch, I'll take you up on your offer this YEAR after I have my ADS-B solution installed, er, I mean my ASPEN ADS-B solution installed!
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