Buying an airplane while training

[wrbix]

Anyone here have experience or suggestion r.e. the pro's/con's of AC purchase during training for PPL?

Certainly would mitigate rental costs..but could insurance be obtained particularly for the solo portion of the training? Would a Complex ticket be issued at the check ride as well? Any and all thoughts/recommendations/harangues welcomed.

Thanks, Bill in SC

[Cabanaboy]

Your insurance if you can get it will be to high. You will pay more to buy. Train, get you PPL then purchase a plane. Join a flying club if you live in a city that has one. What city do you live in SC?

[Cruiser]

I did it but not in a Mooney.

Got my student medical

Bought a 1973 PA28 Cherokee 140 before I took my first lesson.

kept it through IFR training and then sold it.

[Krh3682]

Bill

You don't have to get your complex sign off from the FAA, all you need is a sign off from a CFI that already holds the sign off you're trying to get. The same applies for high performance, tail wheel, and high altitude. The only downside to using a Mooney for your PPL is you go places in a hurry. All in all though, it all depends on what you are used to. For example, the Saudis send their princes to the US for their flight training and they start in Lear jets.

Me personally, I agree with Cabanaboy, get your PPL, get some extra time and a few sign offs (complex, hp, tail wheel), get your instrument rating, and then get the Mooney.

Kyle

[Scopes]

i bought the mooney prior to starting training, did my first 10 hours in a 152 then switched over - took a little longer overall to finish the PPL (i think i did around 60 hours total) but learned a lot about the airplane and became very comfortable with the quirks - i agree the hardest part was staying ahead of the aircraft especially in the circuit as it is just so hard to get the damned thing to slow down so you really need to work out your numbers and stick to it. i'm in canada so things are probably a little different, our insurance options are limited so i went with NO IN-MOTION HULL COVERAGE - just to make it that much more exciting on those first couple hundred landings (if i bounce and have a prop strike it's coming out of my pocket!)

overall very happy with my choice to train in my own a/c - didn't actually save any money though, as the wet-rental + instructor in the 152 was maybe $10/h more than my fuel cost+instructor, and so factor in the actual operating cost (insurance, planned maintenance, etc) of the a/c and it was definitely more expensive to do it that way

best to create a cost spreadsheet and be honest with yourself about the true hourly costs of owning/operating if that is the basis for your decision

[BigTex]

I would find a flight school of your choice and beat up their planes. Then after you have your PPL, then decide on what your primary mission will be.

I have found over they years, that if I just want to go up and fly around or go grab one of those $200 hamburgers then it's best to rent. Even when I went through my aerobatic phase, it was better to rent. Now, if your primary mission is to do some traveling, that's where I found value in buying.

No longer do you have to worry about getting on the schedule weeks in advance to take the plane on a multi-day trip. Nor do you have to deal with daily minimums that many flight schools impose on the renter.

Bottom line, get your PPL. Then consider your primary mission and decide accordingly.

[smccray]

If you're buying to save money I would expect it to be a challenge. It may end up that way, but it's more likely that it will end up costing more than renting, particularly if you buy a complex plane rather than a trainer.

However... if you're buying because you want to buy... go for it!!! I can't speak from personal or professional experience, but the suggestion that many of these threads move towards is to learn to land and then solo a rental plane before you step up, then finish your PPL in your own plane. Retractable gears don't like the stress that student pilots put on them. If, however, you decided something like a 182 was a better fit for you, I'd go straight to the 182.

[N601RX]

My brother and I purchased a low time 150 for $16,000 and both got our PPL in it. We put 300 hrs on it in 2 years and a set of cylinders and sold it for $20,000 Insurance was $500 year. Annual was around $400. Hanger was $60 per month.

It's also worth something having your own plane setting at the airport that you can go get in any time you want without having to schedule a plane or see if one is available.

[Hank]

It is possible to finish your PPL in a Mooney. I bought mine 6 weeks after my checkride. My advice:

1. Finish your PPL in a rental, get some complex time however possible, then buy. -OR-
   
   
2. Use a rental until your landings are consistently good, then start flying your own plane. Abuse the rental with those accidental earthquake arrivals, not your Mooney's retractable gear.
   

I had 62 hours in my logbook, zero retract, and was still flying on my temporary paper certificate when I made the purchase. Insurance was difficult to find and expensive when I did. [Talk to Parker here about that, insurance is his business.] But I flew her almost exactly 100 hours that first year, so my insurance rates dropped by almost half. Two years later I finished my Instrument rating and insurance rates fell an additional 25%.

Nothing wrong with buying early in the cycle, but be prepared to pay a little more for insurance, and if you're still a student, recognize that your checkride will both be postponed a little bit while you learn the new plane and be somewhat more thorough [there are more systems to check, and more things to do for each maneuver]. The examiner will also pay closer attention to your weather knowledge, skill and comfort levels, as Mooneys are traveling machines that go to far places quickly, crossing weather systems enroute.

[jwilkins]

There can be a thousand different opinions, and no 'right' answer, but my recommendation is to get the license first and then spend some time renting so you know what type of flying you enjoy, how much you use a plane, and what type of plane you need for the flying you do after the initial infatuation is over. You may decide after a year you want an M20C for for fun local flying, or you need a de-iced Bravo.

I held off buying my first plane until I got my Instrument rating, just as a self incentive to get it done.

I went from a 62C to a 67F to the present 80K, but I always knew it would be a Mooney.

[John Pleisse]

Get your PPL by current means, then buy the Mooney to do the instrument and commercial. Your first year of insurance will be a bit tough, but likely the least of your concerns. Rarely is your first year of a/c ownership without financial headache. Pick the right plane. If you avoid costly maintencance issues in year one, all told, you'll be dollar for dollar against renting. New fuel tanks, engine work or other high dollar mx items...you'll go in the bucket, quick. Be sure to amass your complex insurance requirements and or intrument rating in the first year for sizeable insurance discounts when the calndar flips to year two.

[gregwatts]

I also, suggest getting the PPL first......then buy the Mooney and get your Instrument Rating in it.

[DrBill]

I also go with get PPL first, then buy. I bought my first plane prior to Instrument training because I wanted a GOOD IFR platform available ( I flew 4-6 times a week) and I wanted consistent operating avionics. So I bought a good IFR Beech Sundowner with fixed gear and prop and got my instrument rating in that. Flew that for 300 hours. over 5 years then sold and moved up to the Mooney. Transitioning to the Mooney was fairly stressful for the first 5 flights or so as I seemed to be always playing catch-up. But soon after it started to sink in and now (80 hrs) it is like an old hat.. it just fits.

Find a flying club or small (cheap) airport to get your ticket. At our field the manager has a "flying club" for new students that really makes it affordable to fly (www.wilgroveairport.net).

Good luck.

Bill

[wrbix]

Thanks one and all for your well thought out responses!

Sounds like my desire for ownership is a bit premature. Patience, I'm told, is a virtue.

To bring y'all up to speed on where I am and where I'm coming from: live in Chester, SC; approx 20hrs into Part 141 training at WNC Aviation in Asheville, NC. I've been lurking on MooneySpace for about 8mos now. Mooney ownership seems to fit my dreams of the future to travel about the country - hope to soon (at retirement) do the SnowBird thing between the NC mountains and our recently acquired vacation home within 100 yards of KCDK on Cedar Key, FL (currently available for short term rental - see www.islandoaks.net - if any of y'all are interested -SPAM?, sorry). Have found MooneySpace an informative and supportive locale. Hope to meet some of y'all in the future.

Bill (the Other Dr Bill, I guess)