N9453V Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I have the LoPresti cowl, and the quality is quite good. Yes, it is expensive, but there are some very good features in it - the Boom Beam light, two good sized doors on the top of the cowl, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Quote: fantom Crazy high price for sure, but a difficult installation with spotty quality. It would be wonderful to have a reasonably priced option! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bd32322 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Quote: Sabremech I assure you quality will not be compromised. Every part that I have made and put through the certification process, with my corporate jet aircraft parts business to date, has quality and backed up with a lifetime warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Quote: JimR I'd be very interested in a reasonably-priced carbon fiber replacement for my OEM fiberglass 201 cowling. It would have to be a bolt on replacement, though, that looks similar to my stock cowling except for the ram air delete. Perhaps with a larger oil fill door? Modern round air inlets? I wonder how much weight that would save? Just dreaming here. I realize that you aren't targeting the 201 crowd here, David. Best of luck with this. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Quote: KSMooniac What in your mind is reasonable? I ask in all seriousness because I've been thinking the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Quote: scottfromiowa PLEASE...give me just a couple of examples where this has happened on the site... Do you then feel that others flying Vintage Mooney's are cutting corners and NOT maintaining their certified aircraft in an appropriate fashion? I welcome for ANYONE to bring this to my attention because I WANT to maintain my aircraft to a high level...I have NOT seen this and would like a couple examples to show me what to look for here. NOT trying to be mean/pick a fight etc...I just don't like comments like these without a reference point...or two. Thank you for your reply. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Quote: Parker_Woodruff PLEASE...give me just a couple of examples where this has happened on the site... Do you then feel that others flying Vintage Mooney's are cutting corners and NOT maintaining their certified aircraft in an appropriate fashion? I welcome for ANYONE to bring this to my attention because I WANT to maintain my aircraft to a high level...I have NOT seen this and would like a couple examples to show me what to look for here. NOT trying to be mean/pick a fight etc...I just don't like comments like these without a reference point...or two. Thank you for your reply. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Scott, I can count at least two times that I never even got to take off before I had found the plane Unairworthy. I've been stranded a few more times at random en route airports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Jim, thanks for the response, and I agree that cost is the primary factor to make such a product attractive. Replicating the current 201 config would be easiest, perhaps with the improvements you mentioned. Ideally it would be great if a new cowl could be fabricated that would work with some modular features or mods such that it would fit C-J Mooneys, but I don't know if that is possible. I haven't studied the contour differences with the C/G and E/F to see if something could be done economically to make it work with the pre-J induction and oil cooling systems or not... I suspect not since it hasn't been done yet. So, the question I would like to know, and I'm sure David as well, is how much would any interested owner be willing to pay for a 201-style cowl? I would hazard a guess that it couldn't be brought to market for less than the 2-3 AMU range for a full cowl kit, but that is just a WAG on my part. Anyone know how much the SWTA cowl conversion kits were? Would anyone be interested in an improved cowl, perhaps with a new baffling arrangement? Would you pay a premium for a carbon fiber version to save 5-7 lbs on the nose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Quote: Parker_Woodruff Scott, I can count at least two times that I never even got to take off before I had found the plane Unairworthy. I've been stranded a few more times at random en route airports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Quote: scottfromiowa Not buying it Parker. Anytime I can fly "for free" (as passenger in anothers plane) much less get paid for it...(never had that opportunity)='s AWESOME. Did you get the blue light out, or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobat95 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 If you could come up with a 201 cowl for a older Mooney.....like say an "F".... I would be all over it especially if it were STC'd. Hell even if you could come up with a carbon fiber cowl that incorporates the cowl enclosure from say Lasar for the older Mooneys I would be interested in that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabremech Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I thank everyone so far for your input and ideas. All of them will be considered as this moves forward. This market is extremely price sensitive, so it needs to be as simple or easy as possible without compromising safety or quality. Chessieretriever, I am interested in your J cowling and possibly the mount if you're willing to part with them. I will most likely need a J cowling for conformity when that time comes. Could you e-mail me your contact info to david@vintageairworks.com? Thank you. If you look at my website, vintageairworks.com, you can see that I'm serious about supporting vintage aircraft and their parts needs. The Mooney cowling project is something I want on my C model and I know others here would like the same option. I have contacted SWTA about their STC's and we'll see where that goes. That would be the ideal situation for me as well as potential customers to keep from starting from scratch. Thanks again for all your thoughts and ideas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Count me in if you are able to do the M20E SWTA/type cowling conversion...at a "cost efficient" price point. It had been a while since I had visited the site. I would relocate oil cooler to get this mod. I hope it works out David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 What I really like about the SWTA cowl conversion for the C,E,F,G is it appears to retain the existing side access lower cowls. Looks like the top cowl incorporates a "J-like" opening in front and a smoother/more aerodynamic front lower cowl. By NOT replacing the sides it would appear that this mod is much more simple...doesn't solve the J cowling upgrade "wanters", but looks like it would REALLY improve cosmetics and with smaller opening and elimination of air filter and oil cooler likely increase speed. Tough to tell difference between a J and this cowl on quick look as the top bulge and frontal area is VERY J-like. Get the windshield STC too. Retains front avionics bay access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Quote: scottfromiowa What I really like about the SWTA cowl conversion for the C,E,F,G is it appears to retain the existing side access lower cowls. Looks like the top cowl incorporates a "J-like" opening in front and a smoother/more aerodynamic front lower cowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heloman Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 My first post, I don't have a Mooney but I've been thinking about getting one, so I've been reading this forum for a while, but this topic is something along the lines of what I do. I develop PMA parts (but usually for part 25 aircraft), I write certification reports and develop PMA/STCs, and I'm a DAR, and I've worked projects involving composites. Although not exactly easy, I don't think this project would be all that hard if you kept the design very similar to original parts, with only minor changes. Digitally scan a 201 cowling to create a model, make the changes you want, and then use the model to make the tool, which will be quite expensive. As far as material goes, don't be too wrapped up in carbon fiber, carbon fiber is not always the best material for the job when looking at all factors. In this case, I think epoxy-glass would be my choice, but I’d have to look into it more to be sure. There are many pods and cowlings mounted on much faster aircraft that are made using epoxy glass. I would think that if you could get at least ten people to pre order, with a deposit, it might be doable but not if you’re paying someone ells (DER and other consultants) to do all the certification work. What other parts would you need besides the actual cowling? What is the price of the other STCs and where does the kit price need to be to put this on a 40-50 thousand dollar airplane, how much time would it take to install, how many could be sold in five years? The answer to all these questions might make the project not look so good. As far as getting someone else’s STC, why did someone stop selling it, if it was a good seller? It's all about volumes, and aircraft parts rarely have good volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabremech Posted August 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 My motivation for this potential project is that I want it for my airplane. So, with that thought why not offer it to others who may want it? The costs are unknown and I would certainly like to obtain an STC that has gone dormant first, but am not adverse to starting from scratch. My main goal besides making my airplane look the way I want it would be to break even. I have established resources that can control costs through development and certification and I'm confident this can be done and offered to others at a reasonable price. Time will tell though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Quote: DaV8or This is exactly what it does. You reuse your cheek panels, cowl flaps, gear doors and mounting brackets. The upper cowl is all new, the baffeling is all new and the front part of the lower cowl is new. However, because the lower cowling is still pretty blunt to the wind, it isn't as good a set up as the real 201 cowl. Also, removing the lower cowl is still big PITA. It was a great kit though and nice alternative for vintage Mooneys. IMO though, if I were starting from scratch, I would do a real 201 STC type set up. This way you can get the vintage planes up to speed so to speak and also provide replacements for all the Js out there. It would of course be ideal to include the carbed Mooneys, but I suspect that would end up being a whole other STC with a different lower cowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Quote: rbridges I didn't realize that would be an issue. My C model has a 201 cowling. I don't know the details, but I thought it just mounted with minimal modification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Quote: Heloman What other parts would you need besides the actual cowling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Quote: DaV8or Does your C have a real 201 cowling from a J on it, or the SWTA "201 Style" cowling. I have never heard of the former being put on a C, but the latter used to be available for C, D and G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Quote: fantom Is you plane finally in the paint shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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