Lasar

[Andy95W]

17 minutes ago, Paul Thomas said:

What did they do with owner produced parts?

Vintage Mooneys with mechanical landing gear have an aluminum block that the locking (Johnson) bar fits into place.  These blocks will wear over time.

LASAR used to have an FAA/PMAed replacement, but they haven’t been available for years.

One of our members here determined the metallurgical alloy and engineering of the component.  He offered it at a reasonable cost to owners if they requested that he produce one using those specifications.  This is completely legal under the Owner Produced Parts requirements, and is actually the exact way that you can order replacement engine controls from McFarlane.

LASAR found out about this (nobody was keeping it a secret) and “ratted” the process out to the FAA who ordered that this be stopped.  I believe it also caused a significant number of issues for the member who really was just trying to help his fellow Mooney owners.

It really seemed like it was retribution for us stepping on their PMA toes.  But it never would have happened if they had simply kept producing their down lock blocks.

LASAR was my preferred parts supplier for years until they did this.  I truly hope they have someone reading this thread.

Edited November 4 by Andy95W

[Paul Thomas]

47 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Vintage Mooneys with mechanical landing gear have an aluminum block that the locking (Johnson) bar fits into place.  These blocks will wear over time.

LASAR used to have an FAA/PMAed replacement, but they haven’t been available for years.

One of our members here determined the metallurgical alloy and engineering of the component.  He offered it at a reasonable cost to owners if they requested that he produce one using those specifications.  This is completely legal under the Owner Produced Parts requirements, and is actually the exact way that you can order replacement engine controls from McFarlane.

LASAR found out about this (nobody was keeping it a secret) and “ratted” the process out to the FAA who ordered that this be stopped.  I believe it also caused a significant number of issues for the member who really was just trying to help his fellow Mooney owners.

It really seemed like it was retribution for us stepping on their PMA toes.  But it never would have happened if they had simply kept producing their down lock blocks.

LASAR was my preferred parts supplier for years until they did this.  I truly hope they have someone reading this thread.

Thank you for the info; sad that the FAA gave issues to a member for following the approved process. Sigh. I have not been a fan of LASAR based on my dealings with them (nothing to do with price) but this type of behavior is not endearing. I'm surprised this forum still recommended them over other MCS to order parts prior to them taking over the supply chain.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

Vintage Mooneys with mechanical landing gear have an aluminum block that the locking (Johnson) bar fits into place.  These blocks will wear over time.

LASAR used to have an FAA/PMAed replacement, but they haven’t been available for years.

One of our members here determined the metallurgical alloy and engineering of the component.  He offered it at a reasonable cost to owners if they requested that he produce one using those specifications.  This is completely legal under the Owner Produced Parts requirements, and is actually the exact way that you can order replacement engine controls from McFarlane.

LASAR found out about this (nobody was keeping it a secret) and “ratted” the process out to the FAA who ordered that this be stopped.  I believe it also caused a significant number of issues for the member who really was just trying to help his fellow Mooney owners.

It really seemed like it was retribution for us stepping on their PMA toes.  But it never would have happened if they had simply kept producing their down lock blocks.

LASAR was my preferred parts supplier for years until they did this.  I truly hope they have someone reading this thread.

This also seemed to have the effect of making many people leery/suspicious/hesitant about the Owner Produced Parts process, which I suspect is what Lasar wanted to accomplish.

OPP is one of the best and most effective escape routes that the FAA gives us to be able to continue to maintain aging airplanes with limited support.   High cost and long lead times are two examples that the FAA often gives in their presentations as reasons to use OPP.   OPP is often also not inexpensive or quick, but it does give an owner options.   Many different vintage aircraft owner groups have successfully and repeatedly done exactly what was attempted here with the lock blocks, and they weren't stifled by vendors complaining to the FAA.  What happened here seemed to me to be a notable exception, and it didn't sit well with many of us.

[Thedude]

How long ago was that?

[00-Negative]

6 minutes ago, Thedude said:

How long ago was that?

You can Google this topic and the letter that the FAA sent out to Mooney owners that had possibly installed this part can be found. I read as much as I could on this topic but didn't want to ask any questions out loud as it seemed sensitive. The guy that developed this part is a real asset to the Mooney community, especially vintage Mooneys. 

-David

[KSMooniac]

I'm worried about all of the PMA & STC parts and repair/refurbish options that used to be available with the original LASAR that are now NLA.  If they could not maintain that low-hanging fruit, I'm really concerned how they're going to maintain the PC in Kerrville.

[1980Mooney]

5 hours ago, Thedude said:

How long ago was that?

2022

[1980Mooney]

I will make it easy for everyone.  Here is the FAA Unapproved Parts Notification (UPN).  UPN 2022-S20210727018

In November 2022, the FAA issued an Unapproved Parts Notification (UPN) specifically for Mooney landing gear lock blocks produced as Owner Produced Parts (OPP). It shat upon the people that help produce them and really screwed the Mooney owners that installed them.  The FAA immediately rendered those planes "not airworthy".  The OPP up and down lock blocks were superior products but immediately became scrap. 

Notice the last sentence - they really want to rat out those involved in producing this superior part.  LASAR got their way and protected their monopoly.

The MS'er that was getting them machined has not been on MS for a year.  Has "transparent" LASAR fessed up?

"If these parts are found in existing inventory or installed in an FAA type-certificated aircraft, the FAA recommends that they be quarantined to prevent installation or use until a determination can be made regarding their eligibility for installation, or replaced with FAA-approved parts. 
 

FURTHER INFORMATION 
You may obtain further information concerning this investigation from the FAA Manufacturing Inspection District Office (MIDO) Section below. In addition to the above recommendations, the FAA would appreciate any information concerning the discovery of the above referenced parts from any source, the means used to identify the source, and the 
actions taken to remove the parts from the aircraft and/or parts inventories. "

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sabremech]

Sure is a way to get my blood boiling again! Funny how Eric pointed out other groups doing exactly this and it still being brought up at IA seminars as the perfect way to stay within the regulations and keep the old birds flying. 
David

[Schllc]

10 hours ago, Andy95W said:

LASAR found out about this (nobody was keeping it a secret) and “ratted” the process out to the FAA

Is that known information or speculation?  That is kind of petty and vindictive (Lasar doing that, not you calling attention to it…),but was it the current owners?

[1980Mooney]

15 hours ago, Schllc said:

Is that known information or speculation?  That is kind of petty and vindictive (Lasar doing that, not you calling attention to it…), but was it the current owners?

LASAR was acquired by the current owners in 2017. This ugly event occurred in 2021-2022.  The former owners, the Loewen’s were long,long gone. 
 

 

[00-Negative]

@Sabremech Is there a path to FAA approval of those blocks? If so, are you pursuing it?

Also of note- I purchased a new down-lock block from LASAR last year and have not installed it on my plane yet. It looks exactly like the blocks referenced by the FAA letter. It is anodized black CNC'd aluminum. Almost as though the good folks at LASAR got you shut down, then copied your design and methodology. I would rather have your block on my plane over LASAR's. And I'm not just sucking up because I want your cowl for my E. Or am I...

-David

[Schllc]

2 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

When the Loewens had LASAR it was Mooney-specific passion project that seemed to prosper and grow for decades.  When the new owners took over lots of things changed.  They sold off LASAR’s extensive used parts inventory or never acquired it in the first place, moved the business, lost their exclusive Mooney focus, and like Scott said above, a lot of their STC’d and PMA’d parts that had been designed to meet critical fleet needs and had been steadily available for decades no longer were.  This led to the OPP up and down lock block fiasco and now there is this.  None of which is confidence inspiring.  

While I continue to find myself sounding like I am defending them, this isn’t really the case… but…

new owners have debt to contend with so some changes would be expected, and the law of economics suggests people do what brings the best return, and pay the price when the do not.  This experiment will be no different.  
 

[Sabremech]

5 hours ago, 00-Negative said:

@Sabremech Is there a path to FAA approval of those blocks? If so, are you pursuing it?

Also of note- I purchased a new down-lock block from LASAR last year and have not installed it on my plane yet. It looks exactly like the blocks referenced by the FAA letter. It is anodized black CNC'd aluminum. Almost as though the good folks at LASAR got you shut down, then copied your design and methodology. I would rather have your block on my plane over LASAR's. And I'm not just sucking up because I want your cowl for my E. Or am I...

-David

Hi David,

I have all the data I need to move the down and uplock blocks to a PMA part. I refuse to do it at this time as the OPP disagreement still stands between MIDO and myself. I turned my PMA back into them out of protest with their actions. I will make OPP downlock blocks but until this issue is resolved, can not do as a group in MIDO’s determination. FSDO is absolutely fine with the group making the needed parts.

I don’t know of anyone in the group that has removed their downlock blocks over the letter. I informed MIDO that any owner that does should sue them if they have a gear collapse due to a worn downlock of which Mooney has no published wear limits. 
Thanks,

David

[hammdo]

MIDOs are now called ‘Certificate Management Sections’ if I read that right on the FAA’s update…

what a mess - left hand says ok, right hand says no…

-Don