Stall warning speaker specs/part number (Ovation/Eagle)?

[Ricky_231]

Long story, but I'm missing the stall/gear warning speaker on my Eagle. I have a working speaker that won't fit in the headliner - is there a standard part number, or any speaker that fits within certain specs will do?

Thanks!

[EricJ]

You can look in the Illustrated Parts Catalog (IPC) for your airplane to find the original part that went in there.      I replaced mine a few years ago and the Radio Shack speaker that was original was no longer available.   I substituted a speaker that fit with similar impedance.    IMHO it falls under the "standard parts" category, so you can use what fits and substitutes for the original.  I'm not aware of any FAA-PMA speaker sources.   I don't think Radio Shack was ever FAA-PMA.   

[gdwinc]

Here is the order form from when I bought them for my Ovation. It has the part number detail. You’ll see two different part numbers - one of them was for gear warning and the other for stall warning. 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, gdwinc said:

Here is the order form from when I bought them for my Ovation. It has the part number detail. You’ll see two different part numbers - one of them was for gear warning and the other for stall warning. 

Those are the sonalert buzzers.   The OP's system uses a speaker.

[PT20J]

Earlier Mooneys used sonalerts for stall warning and landing gear warning. Later models used a tone generator driving a speaker. I’d double check the size, but I think it’s just a common 4 inch, 8 ohm speaker.

[Ricky_231]

Those are the sonalert buzzers.   The OP's system uses a speaker.

Correct. And if I’m right it’s the same speaker for the stall and gear warning.


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[PT20J]

2 hours ago, Ricky_231 said:

Correct. And if I’m right it’s the same speaker for the stall and gear warning.


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Yes, they both come from the same tone generator. Steady tone for the stall; on-off tone for gear.

[1980Mooney]

On 10/18/2024 at 8:28 AM, Ricky_231 said:

Long story, but I'm missing the stall/gear warning speaker on my Eagle. I have a working speaker that won't fit in the headliner - is there a standard part number, or any speaker that fits within certain specs will do?

Thanks!

 

On 10/18/2024 at 9:25 AM, EricJ said:

You can look in the Illustrated Parts Catalog (IPC) for your airplane to find the original part that went in there.      I replaced mine a few years ago and the Radio Shack speaker that was original was no longer available.   I substituted a speaker that fit with similar impedance.    IMHO it falls under the "standard parts" category, so you can use what fits and substitutes for the original.  I'm not aware of any FAA-PMA speaker sources.   I don't think Radio Shack was ever FAA-PMA.   

Electrical components, wiring and schematics for Mooney's are in the "Service and Maintenance Manuals".   They are not the Illustrated Parts Catalogs for whatever reason.

[EricJ]

59 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

Electrical components, wiring and schematics for Mooney's are in the "Service and Maintenance Manuals".   They are not the Illustrated Parts Catalogs for whatever reason.

That may be model dependent.  For the J model the speakers are listed in the IPC.   Vol 2 of the SMM has schematics, but not very many part numbers.

[PT20J]

I've found that sometimes you have to hunt for the an electrical part number. Sometimes they are in the IPC. But, it's often better to get out the schematic for your serial number and note the component reference designator and then look that up in the Electrical Equipment Chart for your serial number at the end of volume 1 of the Service and Maintenance Manual. I say this is better because if Mooney used different parts on different models, the service manual will often be more accurate than the IPC.

Here's a link for the original speaker listed in the M20J IPC (Archer 40-1197). It's is a pretty standard 4", 8 ohm speaker. https://diyaudioprojects.com/Drivers/40-1197/40-1197.htm

Searching the service manual, Mooney used several other Radio Shack (Archer) speakers, but I'm betting they were all equivalent. (Perhaps they just used whatever the Kerrville Radio Shack had in stock when they needed some ). 

[1980Mooney]

On 10/18/2024 at 8:28 AM, Ricky_231 said:

Long story, but I'm missing the stall/gear warning speaker on my Eagle. I have a working speaker that won't fit in the headliner - is there a standard part number, or any speaker that fits within certain specs will do?

Thanks!

 

On 10/19/2024 at 11:36 AM, PT20J said:

Earlier Mooneys used sonalerts for stall warning and landing gear warning. Later models used a tone generator driving a speaker. I’d double check the size, but I think it’s just a common 4 inch, 8 ohm speaker.

 

9 hours ago, Ricky_231 said:

Correct. And if I’m right it’s the same speaker for the stall and gear warning.

 

6 hours ago, PT20J said:

Yes, they both come from the same tone generator. Steady tone for the stall; on-off tone for gear.

 

4 hours ago, EricJ said:

That may be model dependent.  For the J model the speakers are listed in the IPC.   Vol 2 of the SMM has schematics, but not very many part numbers.

That's a fair point.  The Speakers are listed in both places - Parts Catalog on the headliner page and in the back of the Service Manual with the Electrical details (for both J and R/S).  But you need the wiring schematic in the Service Manual to be sure that you are connecting them correctly.  The Ovations get pretty complicated because the original ones had two (2) Sonalerts.  The electrical Schematics show, M20R, thru serial no. 29-0131 (1997) had two (2) speakers and two (2) sonalerts.  Starting in 1998, serial no. 29-0132 and on, Ovations had only two (speakers).  The Parts manual shows that the Sonalerts were there through 29-0088.  I would bet that the schematic is correct but who knows. 

I believe the OP has a 1999 Eagle.  The posted Eagle Service Manual in the Downloads section lacks the wiring schematics. I would use Schematic 800383(R3) Master (Rev.R) on page 656 of the Ovation Service Manual instead (it is also in the Downloads section)  M20R Service and Maintenance Manual P/N MAN161 Revision B: May 2014 - Airframe Manuals - Mooneyspace.com - A community for Mooney aircraft owners and enthusiasts

The OP's picture above shows that he has the 3,5 inch Blaupunkt dual cone cabin speaker PCx352.  That is a 4 ohm speaker.  Note that it is 1.5 inches deep from the mounting flange.

The original 3.5 inch Archer/Realistic speakers were 8 ohms.  Perhaps an electrical engineer can comment whether that makes any difference.   These were all sold as car stereo speakers - usually the 3.5 inch speakers were intended for dash applications.  

Neither the Blaupunkt or Archer/Realistic have been made for 15 years or more.  But there are several Realistic 40-1333D speakers on eBay that may work.  Also the Kenwood KFC-835C may work although it is a dual cone.  It is 4 ohms.  But make sure that the depth fits.

https://www.kenwood.com/usa/car/caraudio/speakers/kfc-835c/

Edited October 20, 2024 by 1980Mooney

[PT20J]

I don't have M20S manuals. My M20J parts manual shows the Blaupunkt  PCX352 as an alternate for the Archer 40-1197. So, either should work electrically. Since the OP's picture is of a Blaupunkt, I would search for a 3.5" speaker as a replacement. Regarding the impedance: If the amp will drive a 4 ohm, it will drive an 8 ohm because the higher impedance will require less drive current. The 8 ohm might not be quite as loud, but I doubt it would be noticeable and since Mooney apparently used 4 and 8 ohm speakers interchangeably I wouldn't worry about it.  

[N201MKTurbo]

I would verify your audio panel, or whatever is driving your cabin speaker, cab drive a 4 ohm speaker. It will put more of a load on the output amplifiers. 
 

As far as the alert speaker is concerned, I would be more concerned with matching the impedance than the part number. If it fits, then it should be OK. 
 

Im not familiar with the tone generator, is it a purchased part, or a Mooney creation? If you can get the specs for it you can see what speaker it was designed for. 
 

If you replace an 8 ohm speaker with a 4 ohm speaker, it will be louder. Or more distorted if the amp isn’t up to driving a 4 ohm speaker.

[EricJ]

50 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I don't have M20S manuals. My M20J parts manual shows the Blaupunkt  PCX352 as an alternate for the Archer 40-1197. So, either should work electrically. Since the OP's picture is of a Blaupunkt, I would search for a 3.5" speaker as a replacement. Regarding the impedance: If the amp will drive a 4 ohm, it will drive an 8 ohm because the higher impedance will require less drive current. The 8 ohm might not be quite as loud, but I doubt it would be noticeable and since Mooney apparently used 4 and 8 ohm speakers interchangeably I wouldn't worry about it.  

When I went to replace mine the Blaupunkt part number was the only one that I could find anybody showing a crossover for.    The Realistic/Radio Shack/Archer stuff seems to have been lost to history more than the Blaupunkt.   In any case, a speaker that physically fits with a 4-8 Ohm impedance and reasonable power capability (e.g., 90 W like shown), should be fine.   The speaker that came out will likely be stamped with its basic specs, so matching that should work.

This is what I put in my M20J, I don't know if it'll fit anything else.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4NY1KE

 

[PT20J]

Mooney used Radio Shack speakers. The little convex mirror that deflects the wing-mounted taxi light beam away from the cockpit is from K-Mart. So, even with all it's business troubles, Mooney has outlasted two of it's much larger suppliers .

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, PT20J said:

Searching the service manual, Mooney used several other Radio Shack (Archer) speakers, but I'm betting they were all equivalent. (Perhaps they just used whatever the Kerrville Radio Shack had in stock when they needed some ). 

Which brings up another point - there is still a Radio Shack in Kerrville!! (https://www.facebook.com/rskerrville/)

And a Gibson's Discount Store (https://www.gibsonsdiscount.com/) !! 

Apparently they didn't get the memo that these stores closed years ago . . . lol

[1980Mooney]

20 minutes ago, EricJ said:

   The speaker that came out will likely be stamped with its basic specs, so matching that should work.

The OP said "but I'm missing the stall/gear warning speaker on my Eagle. "  Hence the mystery....

[Ricky_231]

17 hours ago, EricJ said:

When I went to replace mine the Blaupunkt part number was the only one that I could find anybody showing a crossover for.    The Realistic/Radio Shack/Archer stuff seems to have been lost to history more than the Blaupunkt.   In any case, a speaker that physically fits with a 4-8 Ohm impedance and reasonable power capability (e.g., 90 W like shown), should be fine.   The speaker that came out will likely be stamped with its basic specs, so matching that should work.

This is what I put in my M20J, I don't know if it'll fit anything else.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4NY1KE

 

I'm going to give this guy a try. Will report back. Thanks all!

[Ricky_231]

On 10/20/2024 at 6:47 PM, 1980Mooney said:

The OP said "but I'm missing the stall/gear warning speaker on my Eagle. "  Hence the mystery....

 

On 10/20/2024 at 6:25 PM, EricJ said:

When I went to replace mine the Blaupunkt part number was the only one that I could find anybody showing a crossover for.    The Realistic/Radio Shack/Archer stuff seems to have been lost to history more than the Blaupunkt.   In any case, a speaker that physically fits with a 4-8 Ohm impedance and reasonable power capability (e.g., 90 W like shown), should be fine.   The speaker that came out will likely be stamped with its basic specs, so matching that should work.

This is what I put in my M20J, I don't know if it'll fit anything else.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4NY1KE

 

 

On 10/21/2024 at 11:31 AM, Ricky_231 said:

I'm going to give this guy a try. Will report back. Thanks all!

 

So in theory the stall warning was supposed to come through the headset, but it wasn't. I heard a chirp once but that was it. In inspecting the headliner, I found a hole and a connector labeled "STALL" with nothing attached to it. So I knew something was afoot :-).

Also, a stall warning that only comes through the headset presents quite a challenge to be able to test it on the ground (doable, but a hassle that involves connecting the headset from the outside through the pilot window and stretching to get to the little tab on the wing).

So I'm happy to report that I bought the hifonics speakers EricJ mentioned and they're a perfect fit.

Now everything is fixed, and the tone comes both from the headset and the speaker.