Starting to Look for a Pre-J / Couple of Questions

[bigmo]

Current a/c owner, but my mission is changing a bit and have pretty much settled on a pre-J. My a/c should sell easily/quickly, so looking to get serious this fall and need to know if I need to open my aperture a bit more. My wife might approve a two plane situation for a few months if the perfect plane pops up.

Right now, here are my must haves:

1. Mid-time motor or less

2. WAAS GPS

3. Autopilot w/ altitude hold

4. Serviceable interior & exterior

 

I'm seeing a few meeting 3 of the 4 for $80-100K. All four is north of $100k...more like $120K-$130K.

 

I do have a relationship with a couple of avionics installers, and have some rebuild quotes on the 360 that were (kind of) affordable. So, I'm not scared of finding a quality candidate, doing the panel I want, a fresh motor and come in under $120K. Realistically, the plane will be offline 6 months. So that's not a great option.

 

So, the questions:

My first question is regarding autopilot options (I can't seem to understand if the Aerocruze is an option now - or soon). What are the autopilot options for pre-J, specifically C? Anything that can be bought and installed for $15K or less?

Do my numbers seem about right for what you know/have seen?

In your opinion, do I buy the plane as I want/need (ie all four of my requirements) even if that takes some time? Or should I consider finding a good candidate that's prime for updating?

 

Very open to any all buying advice, as well as experienced Mooney prebuy mechanics that dont mind travel.

Thanks!

 

[gwav8or]

I bought my F in 2022 with the thought that I could "make it my own".  It had good bones, great paint and the only avionics upgrade that had been previously done  was to add a 345 transponder.  The transponder is very nice, I love it.  It has the adsb in/out.  I did the first phase of the avionics upgrade last year which was to add a gps, G5s, a clock and a new panel with plans to do an engine monitor and an autopilot in the near future.  New interior to follow the avionics upgrades.  My goal is to really make it mine and make it exactly what I want.

I  could have potentially saved some $$ by buying the plane that fit all my "wants/needs" to begin with, however as I looked and looked and looked and it was almost  impossible to find the "One".  Not impossible but nearly so.  Probably because I was looking for EXACTLY what I wanted.

If your wants and needs are a bit flexible, I'd recommend finding the plane that is as close as can be to what you want and buy it.

However, if you really want to make it your own, find one with good bones and prepare to spend more $$ but also be more satisfied with the end result.

[bigmo]

11 minutes ago, gwav8or said:

If your wants and needs are a bit flexible, I'd recommend finding the plane that is as close as can be to what you want and buy it.

However, if you really want to make it your own, find one with good bones and prepare to spend more $$ but also be more satisfied with the end result.

Congrats on the purchase!

Thanks so much - this I think is right where I am at. Since I'm not in a crisis - and if my wife will tolerate an overlap of an extra plane, I might be able to look for 4-6 months and find that perfect plane. I can dream at least.

As a recent buyer & upgrader, do my prices look about right for the market?

Are you concerned about having $120-130K into a pre-J? I'm personally not as my alternative is a SR-20 at 2x the cost. I do fly a lot of IMC, so my wish list is kind of an essential list.

 

FWIW I did all my initial pilot training at DUA in the early 90's. Learned a lot flying the crazy weather in southeast OK!

Edited July 17, 2024 by bigmo

[Andy95W]

30 minutes ago, bigmo said:

1. Mid-time motor or less

2. WAAS GPS

3. Autopilot w/ altitude hold

4. Serviceable interior & exterior

I'm seeing a few meeting 3 of the 4 for $80-100K. All four is north of $100k...more like $120K-$130K.

Wow.  I really need to increase the insured value of my M20C to $110k.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Andy95W

[Echo]

Spend a little more and buy a J. Ajay is more likely to have your needs already and you will recover the cost more easily at sale time.

[gwav8or]

17 minutes ago, bigmo said:

Congrats on the purchase!

Thanks so much - this I think is right where I am at. Since I'm not in a crisis - and if my wife will tolerate an overlap of an extra plane, I might be able to look for 4-6 months and find that perfect plane. I can dream at least.

As a recent buyer & upgrader, do my prices look about right for the market?

Are you concerned about having $120-130K into a pre-J? I'm personally not as my alternative is a SR-20 at 2x the cost. I do fly a lot of IMC, so my wish list is kind of an essential list.

 

FWIW I did all my initial pilot training at DUA in the early 90's. Learned a lot flying the crazy weather in southeast OK!

Thanks!  I absolutely love my F!  I seriously wish I'd joined the Mooney Family many years ago!

I think your numbers are fairly accurate but as I've watched the market from afar, I believe prices are starting to cool.  I think (maybe hope) prices will come down a bit in the next 6 months.  They'll never come down to preCovid numbers, ever but I think they'll come down a bit.  Disclaimer, I'm not an expert!  I've just been involved in aircraft ownership for about 14 years so I still have a lot to learn.

As far as how much I'll have in my bird, I don't count the labor $$ and when I made the purchase I was lucky enough to buy at a price that has me very comfortable with the amount I'll have in the plane when it's all said and done.

Good ol' DUA!  I've only been here a few years but honestly I love the airport.  I don't love it nearly as much as my first home airport though.  2K9 up near Tulsa is hands down the best aviation community I've ever experienced.  I sorely miss that airport and the folks there.

[Skates97]

16 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Wow.  I really need to increase the insured value of my M20C to $110k.

I have mine insured at $150k. Using Jimmy's recently published valuation tool it puts mine between $135-140k. New paint, good interior, WAAS GPS, GFC500, primary engine monitor, G5's, ADS-B, newly overhauled engine.

To the OP, the only option right now for the AP is the Garmin GFC500. It is an excellent autopilot and along with a WAAS GPS, I have the GNC355, it is excellent for instrument flying. If you have time, wait and watch the market. When I bought mine 7 1/2 years ago all I had the money for was a plane with good bones that had flown regularly, no AP, not even the wing leveler. Bought it, flew it a bunch, and over the years put in the upgrades. I'm into it for a lot more than if I had bought one already equipped, but like I said, it was all I could afford at the time and I wouldn't trade all the memories/flights for anything.

[BlueSky247]

I'm going to second what @Echo recommended. I was also in the market for a pre-J, but when you look at all of the factors, and how many more J's were made than other models, it just makes sense to go with a "modern mooney".  If I am not mistaken, I think more J's were built than any other generation. So that would give you more choices in the marketplace and make them front in line for any new avionic certifications.  Just my humble opinion.

[EricJ]

Any avionics installation is expensive, always more than you think, so the closer you can get to what you want in an initial purchase the less $$ you'll have to shell out.    The other side of that is that to get exactly what you want, it's better to buy a beater with an old panel and just redo it to what you want, but that's the most expensive way.

If you can find something that has a decent working autopilot that will do what you need, that's a good option.    The BK Aerocruz is currently available, and a number of them have been installed.   They had to go back to recert a bracket issue and are expected to start shipping again soon, but you can buy one now and get an installation via a DER if you don't want to wait.     Dynon makes a very nice glass panel system that will support an autopilot that has an excellent reputation, and is expected to reach certification for Mooneys soon.  The GFC500 is also an excellent autopilot, and is the most expensive to purchase and install.

And +1 to not exclude J models in your search.    I was looking for an E when I was shopping, and happened across a J that suited me better than any of the Es I'd looked at.   I'm glad that happened.

 

 

[PT20J]

Don't put too much faith in a low to mid-time engine. Depending on who last overhauled it, how long ago, how often if flies and luck, it may or may not go to TBO. Make sure you have enough money in reserve for this eventuality.

[Skates97]

3 hours ago, PT20J said:

Don't put too much faith in a low to mid-time engine. Depending on who last overhauled it, how long ago, how often if flies and luck, it may or may not go to TBO. Make sure you have enough money in reserve for this eventuality.

Agree 100%! I bought mine at 1,415 SMOH. I replaced the engine just over 7 years later at 2,336 hours, not because of any issues but because I figured the time was coming.

Have a friend that bought a Mooney with a lower time engine that likely hadn't been flown enough regularly. About two years in it started making metal and had to be overhauled.

[AndreiC]

Regarding the prices, I think you are in the correct ballpark range. I bought last year a 1970 E model that does meet your 4 criteria, but with older equipment: GNS430W, STEC30 w/GPSS and Alt-hold, paint is a 10 footer, interior was terrible. The good news was that the engine had a really nice overhaul (Penn Yan) with under 500 hours on it, and almost brand new Lycoming cylinders (<100 hours). I put a lot of time into redoing the interior myself, and it was quite a job... much more work than I expected; it came out OK, but what you would expect from a non-professional. 

I paid $85k for the plane when I bought it, and so far I have been very happy with it -- I have about 150 hours in it now, after about 15 months. I guess with all the upgrades I did to it (improved interior, new landing gear donuts, new battery, landing height system, first annual) I'm close to $100k in. So a good plane with everything you want will probably be close to $100k, or maybe slightly higher if the prices have gone up since I bought mine. Just a point of reference.

[gwav8or]

5 minutes ago, AndreiC said:

I bought last year a 19970 E model

You bought a Mooney from the future?!?  I bet that thing will go warp speed!  JK!!

[AndreiC]

1 minute ago, gwav8or said:

You bought a Mooney from the future?!?  I bet that thing will go warp speed!  JK!!

Fixed it

 

[bigmo]

Really appreciate all the great comments gents.

I've found a J I really like:

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/235208573/1978-mooney-m20j-201-piston-single-aircraft

This feels like the best bang for the buck right now. If I were hot to buy right now, this might be the one.

 

This C DOES meet all my needs. I'm a little scared of the missing logs, but it was a long time ago. Would take a very thorough pre-buy, but seems to be priced VERY well:

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?s-type=aircraft&listing_id=2432633

 

Right now, thos seem to be my two ends. 

 

If I felt the need to go north of 200K, there are some stellar examples in the $220K range like this beauty:

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/232910897/1997-mooney-m20j-allegro-piston-single-aircraft

[Mike Stein]

Hi Bigmo,

I have a great C with a bunch of avionics upgrades, servicable paint, and almost have the new interior installed. New seats carpet and lower panels are done just the side plastics to trim and install and it will be done. but does need a new panel. Let me know if this might be a good candidate for you. Unfortunately I am forced to move up to a 6 seater. Any chance that's what your moving out of?

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/2432917

 

Good luck,

Mike

781-854-6963