Flap position indicator not longer visible

[redbaron1982]

Last Wedensday I was going around after a not so good landing (as I'm still getting used to landing my Mooney I always go around after the first bounce) and cleaning the airplane when, to my surprise, the flap position indicator was not longer visible.

It was a bit distracting for a few seconds, but then I just look through the window, I saw the flaps were up, and disregard the indicator, did a lap in the pattern and come back and landed uneventfully.

The flaps operator withou issue, so this seems to be related to the flap indicator only. I looked with a flashlight and it seems that the transparent tube that has the black mark in the tip is not longer there.

I read something that I can get to this through the belly (I have the a one piece belly mod), my question is how difficult is this to fix? I'm evualating doing this myself or take it to the shop that is in my home airport.

[EricJ]

15 hours ago, redbaron1982 said:

Last Wedensday I was going around after a not so good landing (as I'm still getting used to landing my Mooney I always go around after the first bounce) and cleaning the airplane when, to my surprise, the flap position indicator was not longer visible.

It was a bit distracting for a few seconds, but then I just look through the window, I saw the flaps were up, and disregard the indicator, did a lap in the pattern and come back and landed uneventfully.

The flaps operator withou issue, so this seems to be related to the flap indicator only. I looked with a flashlight and it seems that the transparent tube that has the black mark in the tip is not longer there.

I read something that I can get to this through the belly (I have the a one piece belly mod), my question is how difficult is this to fix? I'm evualating doing this myself or take it to the shop that is in my home airport.

You should be able to download the Service Maintenance Manual and the Illustrated Parts Catalog for free online, and both are useful for things like this.   The IPC has diagrams showing routing and placement of everything including the flap indicator cable, and the SMM describes the proper procedure for rigging it so that it displays correctly.   If you're working with an A&P it makes it easier to sign off supervised work if you can say you did the work per the SMM.

[redbaron1982]

31 minutes ago, EricJ said:

You should be able to download the Service Maintenance Manual and the Illustrated Parts Catalog for free online, and both are useful for things like this.   The IPC has diagrams showing routing and placement of everything including the flap indicator cable, and the SMM describes the proper procedure for rigging it so that it displays correctly.   If you're working with an A&P it makes it easier to sign off supervised work if you can say you did the work per the SMM.

Hey, thanks for the feedback. I did find in the IPC the section (27-40-02) but did not find anything regarding the flap and trim position indicator in the SMM. Where is it specifically? I thought that the numbers in the IPC and SMM would match but if I go to 27-40 in the SMM it talks about rigging the flap itself but says nothing about the position indicator.

[EricJ]

44 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

Hey, thanks for the feedback. I did find in the IPC the section (27-40-02) but did not find anything regarding the flap and trim position indicator in the SMM. Where is it specifically? I thought that the numbers in the IPC and SMM would match but if I go to 27-40 in the SMM it talks about rigging the flap itself but says nothing about the position indicator.

Yeah, the SMM I have doesn't seem to have a specific procedure for the flap indicator, but the actuator end of the cable is shown in Fig. 27-13.    That said, it's pretty easy to adjust the cable and indicator at the flap travel limits.   If the cable is intact at the indicator, which is a good thing to check first, it can be adjusted at the actuator end.   It might take iterating between both ends if it came apart at the indicator.

[PT20J]

I just went through that same thing. Royal PITA. There are diagrams in the IPC, but they aren't detailed enough to be very helpful. The cable from the flaps runs up from below the console and the end is glued into a hole in the bottom of the round clear shaft that is the indicator. The shaft runs in a channel in the body of the flap and trim indicator. In my case, it was the cowl flap indicator that broke, but the design is the same. The problem is that the shaft didn't line up that well with the channel and the sideways flex eventually broke it off. When they break, they fall down between the front of the console and the nose wheel well. To fix this, I had to drill the pop rivets out of the right console side panel, remove all the screws from the console front and the controls on the front of the console so that I could pull the console forward to get access. The flap and trim indicators are fastened to the the console front, so you'll have to remove the entire indicator assembly to get access. Then you can find the broken shaft and glue it back on with acrylic cement. Then you get to put the whole thing back together.

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[A64Pilot]

On the wing flap youncan let the flaps fully down and take a sharpie or other marker and make a mark at the trailing edge of the wing, then by whatever means necessary prop protractor or electronic level of your eye let the flaps up to the take off position and make another mark.

Not saying don’t fix the stock one but this is a good back-up if it breaks again, so you know where 1/2 flap is it, anyone can tell full up or full down.

That’s the Certified flap indicator on a Thrush, but there it’s a decal with 15 and 30 on it and we put a light out there for night flight.

[Pinecone]

On my plane, 3 seconds is take off flaps.  And full flaps is hold it until they stop moving.

Just saying.

 

[redbaron1982]

Lol... I don't want to start piling up squawks, so I want to get this fixed. I already have quite a few to work on from surprises after prebuy inspection and the first annual.

I'm working with the local shop to get an estimate on this.

[amillet]

To fix this, I had to drill the pop rivets out of the right console side panel, remove all the screws from the console front and the controls on the front of the console so that I could pull the console forward to get access. 
 

I had Advanced (Troutdale, OR) fix mine. A couple of years ago. Same process

[PT20J]

4 hours ago, amillet said:

To fix this, I had to drill the pop rivets out of the right console side panel, remove all the screws from the console front and the controls on the front of the console so that I could pull the console forward to get access. 
 

I had Advanced (Troutdale, OR) fix mine. A couple of years ago. Same process

Funny you should mention that. I spoke with Greg when his crew was replacing my nose gear and mentioned that owners that complain about the cost of maintenance should try some of these “simple” repairs themselves to see what’s involved. I used the indicator as an example and Greg laughed knowingly. 

[redbaron1982]

I'm having a hard time trying to fix this. I already "glued" the indicator twice, and both times it broke before putting everything back together.

I used both times cyanoacrylate glue, one was fast setting and the other one slower, more for filling gaps. The second time I let it cure for 36 hours. When I came back to put everything together, although it seemed "solid", when I start lowering the flaps to make room to put back the window, the indicator rod snapped again.

Which glue do you guys recommend to do this? Epoxy? I found this one that seems to be specific to acrylic: Weld-on 40 or Weld-On 4.

[PT20J]

The cyanoacrylate glues have high tensile strength but very low shear strength. I used SCIGRIP Weld-On 16 Cement. It is a thickened acrylic glue. 
https://www.amazon.com/SCIGRIP-10319-Acrylic-Cement-Low-VOC/dp/B0046768VS/ref=asc_df_B0046768VS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=192257135964&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15826144592155287261&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1024543&hvtargid=pla-304348895660&psc=1

[Aerodon]

This is from a 252, does it look original?  Looks like the metal rod is just a painted brass welding rod glued into an electrical splice?

I've experimented with using a Nicopress 'end stop' swaged onto the spring steel cable, will also try crimping this electrical connector onto the cable for a 'pull test'.

Anyone got any pictures on how the spring steel is fitted into the hole on the flap actuator?  This is where mine broke, need to figure out how best to attach the new one.

 

Aerodon

 

 

 

 

 

[PT20J]

That doesn't look original. I think the indicator rod is supposed to be clear acrylic rod with a reduced diameter at the top painted black. My M20J IPC shows that there is a cap crimped onto the cable end and the rod rests on that attached with heat shrink tubing. K is probably the same.