Ovation Down Watertown

[Echo]

19 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

I don't understand your comment.  Where does it say "VFR"?  The Prelim says:

• "The RYV weather station reported an overcast ceiling at 300 ft above ground level (agl)."
• He was taking off from RYV (Watertown Municipal Airport)
• He filed IFR.

300 ft. ceilings would be obvious to anyone on the ground contemplating flight. It is technically legal to take off but leaves little to no margin for error. - man or machine.  I agree with your comment that when taking off in LIFR conditions, you are willfully taking greater risk for both yourself and your passengers.  It will be interesting to see if the investigation determines if he was Instrument Current and how he did it since his online ADSBExhange/FlightAware flights don't show any evidence of instrument approaches.  

This actually makes me feel a lot better.  I misunderstood what the weather was called in Watertown.  Thank you for the clarification.

[Echo]

12 minutes ago, kortopates said:

did you mean VMC?


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I did not.  I thought Watertown was called VFR for accident planes departure.  My error.  This actually is comforting for me to hear the weather was accurately called IFR.

[Echo]

39 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

I don't understand your comment.  Where does it say "VFR"?  The Prelim says:

• "The RYV weather station reported an overcast ceiling at 300 ft above ground level (agl)."
• He was taking off from RYV (Watertown Municipal Airport)
• He filed IFR.

300 ft. ceilings would be obvious to anyone on the ground contemplating flight. It is technically legal to take off but leaves little to no margin for error. - man or machine.  I agree with your comment that when taking off in LIFR conditions, you are willfully taking greater risk for both yourself and your passengers.  It will be interesting to see if the investigation determines if he was Instrument Current and how he did it since his online ADSBExhange/FlightAware flights don't show any evidence of instrument approaches.  

I just read the prelim.  Thank you.  This hits very close to home as D25 is a primary destination for me and family.  I hope to God that pilot was IFR current.  If not, .  He just needed to climb to 3k, right?  No turns on departure, just a three minute climb to be clear on top?  I just do not understand how this can happen when you KNOW the ceiling is 300' and you will be on instruments...Just sad.

[kortopates]

I just read the prelim.  Thank you.  This hits very close to home as D25 is a primary destination for me and family.  I hope to God that pilot was IFR current.  If not, .  He just needed to climb to 3k, right?  No turns on departure, just a three minute climb to be clear on top?  I just do not understand how this can happen when you KNOW the ceiling is 300' and you will be on instruments...Just sad.

Of course such a departure would be easy for a proficient instrument pilot.
As you say, just needed to climb to about 3K.
But if you review the Flightaware site you’ll see there are no flights suggestive of instrument work in the last 6 months. In fact nothing between Dec and early may, and then what appears to be a maneuvering flight which could of have been a VFR training/proficiency flight and then just round trips to probably his summer cabin by D25.


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[wiguy]

 I don’t have it right here, but I looked up historical metars for a few hours after this accident timeframe. As is often the case, by 3-4 hours the weather was MUCH better, to scattered. Besides me looking it up, it should of been evident on the day of the accident by looking at surrounding TAFs.

   On top of that it was a 1:30 or so flight to N WI, who cares if one leaves at 1:00 in the afternoon. Even if the flight was perfectly executed, one has fewer options flying above a 500’ OVC layer, should a problem develop. 

  I heard ‘recency of experience’ mentioned, not sure how it may of played a role. With regard to potential ‘spacial disorientation’(not saying it was present), one mitigator is a wings level climb(AS ABLE) before the turn on course. With terrain not a factor, even if after departure ‘cleared on course’,  establish in the wings level climb 1st, then a gentle turn to get started. Of course 30 AOB at 400’ AGL should be doable, I’m just relating how to stay well inside the envelope. 
 

 Last item, this type of accident is as disheartening to me as anyone. After the fact there’s no way to turn back the clock, sorry. Over decades the idea of analysis of the accident is to learn and hopefully break a similar chain lining up in the future. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by wiguy
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[Jerry 5TJ]

“Pitch.  Power.  Positive Rate.”  
That’s all he had to do on departure and if that’s all he had done it would have been fine.  
As @kortopates said, easy enough for a competent, calm instrument pilot to do that departure.  Not so clear how prudent it was to depart into 300 foot overcast.  

[redbaron1982]

2 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

“Pitch.  Power.  Positive Rate.”  
That’s all he had to do on departure and if that’s all he had done it would have been fine.  
As @kortopates said, easy enough for a competent, calm instrument pilot to do that departure.  Not so clear how prudent it was to depart into 300 foot overcast.  

What I cannot take out of my head that he did that imprudent thing with his grandson. I don't know in which right month there is room to go flying with an 8 year old kid in low IFR, single engine and not been proficient at it.