Overhaul time looming

[Awful_Charlie]

I've just got the oil analysis results back from an interim sample, as the previous 3 had been a bit high in the iron and aluminium stakes, and it looks as though I'm going to be heading for an overhaul a bit sooner than anticipated, currently on 1600 hours with 1 new pot since new.

The company I was going to use in the UK (Nicholson-McLaren) can't handle the AF1B due to the underslung turbo, and although there are several shops in Europe, there won't be any with considerable experience of this engine.  I was hoping that the combined wisdome of the Bravo owners here might be able to give me some good leads on a suitable shop, or probably more importantly, on ones to avoid (PM if you'd rather not state it publicly)  I'm in the odd situation that I have a spare engine in the hangar that was purchased from an insurance write off after a forced landing that has 900 hours on it, and would probably get this one overhaulled and returned so that I don't spend ages with a dead airframe.  When the engines are changes, I'm happy to ship the currently running one back, hopefully to reduce the bill!

Price is important, but the ability to get it spot on first time is more so - demounting, shipping and the reverse would take a significant amount of time, so although I like the idea of a warranty, I prefer the idea of not needing to test it!  Low vibration and longevity are also significant, and mods such as Ney nozzles I could potentially be sold on.

So far, http://www.victor-aviation.com/ and http://www.bpaengines.com/ have come in with recommendations, but I'm open to other ideas as well as experiences to these two.

TIA

Ben

[jetdriven]

Can you post a screen shot of your oil analysis?

 

[Awful_Charlie]

Hopefully this will work....

[FoxMike]

Ben,

You maybe a candidate for an overhaul/rebuild from Lycoming.  I just ddi my TIO 540 AF1B.  I did not opt to pay the considerable difference for the Lycoming overhaul but it might be the best way for you to go.  It takes about 60K from Air Power with new hoses and accessories.  You could then sell you spare core to someone else.  Make sure the engine you trade in is not listed in SB 569B (Crankshaft retirement).  You will have less down time because you do not have to take the old engine out till you get the overhaul.  Make sure you have the room and shop space to do this job right.  Do not try to do this outside.  If you decide to overhaul one of your engines it would be best to overhaul the crankcase, cam and lifters and magflux all the gears.  If you are not sure what I am talking about you need to talk to an A&P who has some experience.  Having said all this I would not tear down an engine because of an oil analysis.  If you have used reasonable power settings and good engine management techniques the engine should go 2000hrs.  Make sure you have the whole exhaust system overhauled by a good shop.  The exhaust system is the worst system I have seen in 40+ years of operating turbo engines.  Good Luck.

Walt

[Awful_Charlie]

Thanks Walt

Neither of the engines are due the crank SB, but the 'spare' has had a 'sudden stoppage' so possible it might be scrap, but in any case is not usable until it has been opened up and checked, along with all the accessory housing contents, which I would expect to include magnafluxing the gears.  I've got space in the hangar to get it done there, but will obviously have to check with my regular A&P if he is prepared to do it, or if I need to get him an assistant or find another.

Power is good at the moment, and I keep the cooling rate down until CHTs are below 250 or so and with max temps always under 420, only very rarely over 400, but I agree the exhaust is lousy - it has been repaired a couple of times already, and to get to 2000 hours I'm sure it will need another

[jetdriven]

Is there metal in the filter?  A teaspoonfull of metal in the filter is  a lot.   IF the engine sits 3 weeks at a clip thats the source of your iron, which is not  a big deal.

 

did you read these?

http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/savvy_aviator_52_thinking_about_oil_changes_196730-1.html

http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/savvy_aviator_44_making_metal_195044-1.html

[Vref]

Ben, did you check this company in Belgium?

http://www.loma-air.com/

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Those figures are based on parts per million...it looks good to me.  Oil analysis is really trend analysis right?  My figures are not far from yours on my TSIO-360 and I was told by several different AP’s I have nothing to worry about.

[Awful_Charlie]

Gosh - thanks chaps - all that reading makes me feel a bit better!

Byron & Nick - good to get some other figures for metal content.  What had rather upset me was the vast increase from the previous owners figures - on the basis of the trend, the iron and nickel are way up compared to the earliest two samples in the report.  Unfortunately I don't get to fly every week, but try for every second, and when I get to the third I try to make a point of going out just for a half hour flight to keep things moving.  At the last change I started using camguard, and have just changed the oil again (I ran the 14 hour sample through to 25hours, and just changed it last weekend) so will see it the camguard makes it settle down somewhere else.  There wasn't much obvious in the filter, which is still draining into a newspaper on my bench in the hangar, but would be surprised is there was much in there.

Vref - I had more or less excluded the european shops as there are only about ?50 odd Bravos in Europe, and I can't imagine many of those have done an overhaul, and even fewer in Europe, so thought the experience of EU shops overhauling Bravo engines would be minimal.  I know a UK LAE who deals with N-M, and has nothing but praise for the many engine he has had done by them, which was the reason to appraoch them, a shame they are unable to help.  So you have much experience with Loma?

Ben

[Vref]

My engine was overhauled at LOMA they receive engines from all over the world , in addition you could check with Röder Präzision in Germany they did my fuel servo very good quality....They do also engine overhauls, I hear good things about them ........

http://www.rp-eg.de/index.php?id=motoren&L=1

Roder has an established reputation for a long time already...

I can imagine that shipment cost and warranty claims may become difficult when shipping overseas..no...?

rgds

Luc

[N33GG]

If any metal found in the filter is so small that you can't read a part number, then it's not a problem and doesn't count.

Just kidding. 

That's what a mechanic used to tell me, and it has always stuck in my mind.  Oh yeah, I changed mechanics.  Don Maxwell doesn't seem to hold the same opinion.

[jetdriven]

According to lycoming anything less than half a teaspoonful, (all smaller than a pencil point),don't ground the engine, but monitor closely.  

[Kwixdraw]

Be sure to check the oil pickup screens too. You may find big chunks in there and that bad stuff won't show up in your oil analysis.

[Awful_Charlie]

Just a follow up on this, as I realise I owe you one for the helpful comments.

a) Upped the oil changes to every 25 hours regardless of calendar time
Started using Camguard
c) Last change did the 'rinse' with gas as suggested elsewhere here.  I only used a couple of pints, let it stand for half an hour giving the aircraft a gentle rock occasionally and then drained it out

Last sample came back green!

[Mcstealth]

So the Aluminum is one tick lower, but the iron count is quite a bit lower. Hmmmm. What do you suppose you attrubute that to? I would venture to guess the washing of the engine the avgas did make a difference. A bigger difference in the iron than the aluminium?????? Six months between this test and the last, but a year's time between the previouse two could also explain some of the differences.

Hope your next one stays in the geen. Good luck.

David

[Awful_Charlie]

Thanks David.  Yep, the Al is only one tick down, but it is in nearly twice as many hours.  I suspect the flush may have had something to do with it, but it is also possible the camguard has helped.  It will be getting another change at the end of the month when the Annual comes in, so will see how the next one turns out.  Shame it still takes a week to get a sample there with express post, and nearer three with normal.

Ben