M20F Yoke - Add AP disconnect, trim, PTT - but where?

[TheMooneyAnomaly]

Hello, friends!

 

My 68 model year M20F has the original style yoke horns with just a single PC disconnect button (which is no longer in use).

The aircraft is currently getting all modern avionics and autopilot.

 

What have other vintage Mooney owners done for mounting and placement of PTT, pitch trim, and AP disconnect controls?

 

Would love to see what you have! Thanks!

[Greg Ellis]

I just finished putting in a GFC500 autopilot.  I had the same issue with the old 63 vintage yokes.  I didn't even have a PC button that could be removed to put stuff in its place.  I looked into trying to switch out for newer yokes but finding them and all the parts needed just was a beating so my installers created a bracket that although is not on the top of the yoke like where most people are used to these buttons being, it is very easy for me to rotate my thumb and get to the trim, AP disconnect and PTT switch.  Sorry about the nighttime photo but you can clearly see the bracket.  All my other photos have my ipad in the way.  Oh, and by the way, it is easy to use with the ipad overlapping it.  My thumb sneaks in behind the ipad to the switches.  

[Marauder]

Hello, friends!
 
My 68 model year M20F has the original style yoke horns with just a single PC disconnect button (which is no longer in use).
The aircraft is currently getting all modern avionics and autopilot.
 
What have other vintage Mooney owners done for mounting and placement of PTT, pitch trim, and AP disconnect controls?
 
Would love to see what you have! Thanks!

I went through this with my 75 F. The 75 models have what I called the “Mongo yokes”. Made for a difficult time mounting anything. You probably have the thinner yokes. Some of the guys have built brackets to support the additional switches for modern avionics.

If you can find a set of J yokes (and the mounting hardware), it makes for a lot easier installation and look.


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[BobbyH]

I have a 66' M20E with PTT and Autopilot buttons on the Pilot side.  They work great for me.  No Electronic trim though.  Looks like it may have been custom made.

[KSMooniac]

Upgrading yokes would be the cleanest integration, but it is a budget hit and can be a scavenger hunt that might take a while. Otherwise, add-on brackets like Greg's solution are a perfectly acceptable option. You could do both... Opt for the easy way now and then keep an eye out for a yoke upgrade and change them out in the future if your plane is a keeper.

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[TheMooneyAnomaly]

The only approved upgrade SKU to modern style yokes costs $10.5k and has a 25 week wait, per Mooney


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[TheMooneyAnomaly]

Here is what I have.
I was hoping to maybe turn the PC override into PTT and mount AP disco at the back of that top left side and run the wires down the inside of the horn.
Was disappointed to find that the PC override comes down two thin tubes rather than a fat vac tube.



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[TheMooneyAnomaly]

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[Guest]

From EBay 

[TheMooneyAnomaly]

I have a 66' M20E with PTT and Autopilot buttons on the Pilot side.  They work great for me.  No Electronic trim though.  Looks like it may have been custom made.

Nice! Are the wires routed inside of the yoke?


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[BobbyH]

23 minutes ago, StPeteM20F said:

Nice! Are the wires routed inside of the yoke?

That is correct.  The PC was replaced with the STEC 50 in the background of pic.  The wires are routed inside the yoke to the buttons. 

[BobbyH]

3 minutes ago, BobbyH said:

The wires are routed inside the yoke to the buttons. 

I think they drilled another hole for the wires and if I remember properly, the tubes were removed. 

[KSMooniac]

Bobby's solution is the best I've seen for a vintage yoke, but of course doesn't include an electric trim switch (if equipped... I'm still rockin' manual trim in my J!)

Unfortunately the Mooney factory has the modern pricing for an $800k brand-new plane in the era of product liability.  Most owners would grab a salvage kit from a suitable vendor for $800-$1,200 or so.  You would need yokes, shafts, the panel bearing, and perhaps the cross bar that ties them together behind the panel.  You may or may not find a pilot yoke with the expensive split trim switch in place.  The salvage yokes might have an ugly/worn finish too, so you might want to spring for modern leather wraps from Aero Comfort, or strip-n-paint, etc. to whatever your taste and budget allows.  

I have a single yoke and shaft assembly (pilot side) and King system trim switches that I plan to sell.  I have been casually looking for a stray copilot yoke to complete the kit, but if you want to consider what I have, and look for a copilot yoke separately, then PM me.  They are great upgrades for any vintage Mooney... better grip/feel IMO, especially with a leather wrap, more room for switches, no AD.

[AdamJD]

Hey StPete,

I'd love to know where you land.  I'm scheduled to get my AP installed late fall.  I have the exact same yokes with PC button.  Disappointed to see that we can't use that to run AP disconnect, trim and PTT and just build a plate to put all three on the thumb.

I haven't had my yokes off to inspect them.  How hard would it be to drill those two tubes into one?  Making the turn would be tough, but it could be done.  I'm really trying to figure out how not to do a plate on the base or lower corner of the yoke, as I like my yoke mounted ipad mini, and that wouldn't fit.

[DCarlton]

My yokes are covered in leather with a small PTT micro switch mounted below the PC override.  If I remember correctly the wire is routed thru the yoke.  Will try to find a pic.  

[Marauder]

The only approved upgrade SKU to modern style yokes costs $10.5k and has a 25 week wait, per Mooney


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Well that is a big jump from last year. I think it was $6300. I did the upgrade in the 90s and the kit was around $2k.

I have the factory blue prints for the upgrade. They were posted in a thread on the site. If you do find used yokes and shafts, the blueprints will provide the details as to what is need for each pre J model.


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[TheMooneyAnomaly]

@Marauder @KSMooniac @M20Doc The avionics shop is under the impression that Mooney HQ said that the aircraft is only 'legal' with either of two SKUs/Part Numbers - basically, the original M20F yokes OR the $10.5k P/N 940021-505.  

Might it be ok (allowable/certified/etc) to get salvage J model yokes (and possibly the other components listed) and install those?  Or might the interpretation from the avionics shop that only two different yokes are 'legal' be accurate?

 

Thanks!

[Immelman]

Mine has a bracket attached to the top of the left side of the left yoke (no PC button at the top). PTT, AP disc, and electric trim all all right there for the left thumb.

[Browncbr1]

you can run multi pole wire through each of the tubes.  I have the ptt button where the PC button valve was with one two pole wire fed through one of the tubes.  That would free up the other tube for trim switch wire.

you could also wrap your yoke in leather, laying up the wire where the seams are, so the relief would be hidden under the seam.

 

[TheMooneyAnomaly]

Caffeine is now kicking in.

 

With regards to switching yoke models, I'm basically asking if anything other than the original or the P/N 940021-505 yokes are STC'd (or reasonable to do a field approval).

[KSMooniac]

Tons of folks have retrofitted J (or later) style yokes into the pre-J Mooneys.  Most reasonable IA's would likely call it a minor mod (no STC, field approval or 337 needed...just a logbook entry) because you're using existing certified parts from another Mooney so you don't need any analysis or other substantiation that would normally be needed for an STC or 337.  Mooney already certified them!  To do the conversion, you need the full kit because the yoke diameter is slightly larger (if my memory is correct) so you need the yokes, shafts, and sliding bearings that fasten to the panel.  In some cases, you might need the linking steel tube behind the panel, but I'm not sure which models might need that.

If your avionics shop is balking at this idea, I would suggest working with another IA to do the conversion and get it signed-off, then go back to the avionics shop and have them continue.  That way they won't have to cover the conversion, just their installation of the new components.  

It is worth the effort in my opinion. I've flown with the skinny pre-J yokes, the Mongo ~1975 era yokes, and the first-gen J yokes and prefer them, wrapped in leather.  The newest factory yokes are also awesome, but hard to find a salvage pair of those since there are so few, and even fewer in the salvage yards.  You should be able to buy a J/K salvage kit for reasonable money if you're patient.  Good luck!

[Marauder]

Caffeine is now kicking in.
 
With regards to switching yoke models, I'm basically asking if anything other than the original or the P/N 940021-505 yokes are STC'd (or reasonable to do a field approval).

Are you doing the ADs on your current yoke shafts? I sent you a PM.


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[Browncbr1]

Glenn has cygnet yokes on his F, which might be an option.   They come in white also, as well as leather options
 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Browncbr1

[AdamJD]

On 7/7/2022 at 4:01 PM, Immelman said:

Mine has a bracket attached to the top of the left side of the left yoke (no PC button at the top). PTT, AP disc, and electric trim all all right there for the left thumb.

@Immelman Do you have a picture?  Thanks!

[Immelman]

On 7/8/2022 at 4:00 PM, AdamJD said:

@Immelman Do you have a picture?  Thanks!

These pics are 10+ years old, not the best resolution, but hopefully they help.