Porpoising on landing after prop change

[A64Pilot]

I learned something the hard way, something that I had been told “Never try to salvage a bad landing”

Cost be a busted oleo strut, prop strike and right wingtip and aileron.

It also started a “creeping elegance” repair that had me without the airplane for I think about 18 months.

Nothing at all wrong with going around, cost less than a half gallon of fuel and maybe 5 min.

[Shadrach]

24 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

I didn't say that.

Everyone bounces one in now and then. I said "Best after the first cycle just to add full power and go around" referring to the porpoising cycle mentioned which starts after the first bounce. So if it bounces and the pilot overreacts and it goes into the porpoising cycle, IMO it's probably good to go around before you head into the 2nd or 3rd cycle.

Thanks for correcting my misreading of your post. Agree 100%

[Ulysse]

I am almost embarrassed to report that I fixed the problem but just increasing the hight of my seat.

As suggested in this thread it probably restored the sight I was used to.

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

[midlifeflyer]

3 hours ago, Ulysse said:

I am almost embarrassed to report that I fixed the problem but just increasing the hight of my seat.

As suggested in this thread it probably restored the sight I was used to.

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

Don't be embarrassed. That's exactly why I couldn't understand why a new prop would  lead to a landing problem. Glad restoring you sight picture did the trick.

[carusoam]

Great follow-up U!

Speed control gets us in the ballpark…

Sight picture gets us to the ground unscathed….

 

Loss of sight picture… may need recalibration or refamiliarization…

 

Two results of a lost sight picture….

1) Plane partially stalls above the surface of the runway…. If the stall horn comes on for an extended period of time…. The pilot has stopped flying before reaching the ground…  hard landing follows….

2) Plane hits the runway harder than usual…. On the mains… followed by the nose wheel bounce…. Porpoise follows the nose wheel bounce…

 

Taking time off from flying can lead to subtle recalibration requirements for the Mark I eyeball…. 
 

 A well executed landing… often comes with subtle signs… the plane often celebrates with three light tones…

1) A brief stall horn blip

2) A squeak from the mains

3) A separate squeak from the nose tire a fraction of a second later

 

a change of WnB and engine rpm can really mix in how fast energy is leaving the system… in the last moments of flying….

It really helps if you can scan instruments while landing… airspeed and AOAi are really helpful data to know…

PP thoughts only… not a CFI….

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

Great follow-up U!
Speed control gets us in the ballpark…
Sight picture gets us to the ground unscathed….
 
Loss of sight picture… may need recalibration or refamiliarization…
 
Two results of a lost sight picture….
1) Plane partially stalls above the surface of the runway…. If the stall horn comes on for an extended period of time…. The pilot has stopped flying before reaching the ground…  hard landing follows….
2) Plane hits the runway harder than usual…. On the mains… followed by the nose wheel bounce…. Porpoise follows the nose wheel bounce…
 
Taking time off from flying can lead to subtle recalibration requirements for the Mark I eyeball…. 
 
 A well executed landing… often comes with subtle signs… the plane often celebrates with three light tones…
1) A brief stall horn blip
2) A squeak from the mains
3) A separate squeak from the nose tire a fraction of a second later
 
a change of WnB and engine rpm can really mix in how fast energy is leaving the system… in the last moments of flying….
It really helps if you can scan instruments while landing… airspeed and AOAi are really helpful data to know…
PP thoughts only… not a CFI….
Best regards,
-a-

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kortopates]

Great follow-up U!
Speed control gets us in the ballpark…
Sight picture gets us to the ground unscathed….
 
Loss of sight picture… may need recalibration or refamiliarization…
 
Two results of a lost sight picture….
1) Plane partially stalls above the surface of the runway…. If the stall horn comes on for an extended period of time…. The pilot has stopped flying before reaching the ground…  hard landing follows….
2) Plane hits the runway harder than usual…. On the mains… followed by the nose wheel bounce…. Porpoise follows the nose wheel bounce…
 
Taking time off from flying can lead to subtle recalibration requirements for the Mark I eyeball…. 
 
 A well executed landing… often comes with subtle signs… the plane often celebrates with three light tones…
1) A brief stall horn blip
2) A squeak from the mains
3) A separate squeak from the nose tire a fraction of a second later
 
a change of WnB and engine rpm can really mix in how fast energy is leaving the system… in the last moments of flying….
It really helps if you can scan instruments while landing… airspeed and AOAi are really helpful data to know…
PP thoughts only… not a CFI….
Best regards,
-a-

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[glenn reynolds]

nice thread and here are my thoughts:

I recently replaced my aluminum hartzell three blade with an MT four blade composite and lost twenty pounds.  You will be stunned to learn that engines, props and mechanics are in short supply and so the firewall forward project took four months time.  to give myself a break from spending all my free time on freight tracking websites and keep some semblance of currency I flew a friends Cessna 140.  Oh what a ball!  if you think we can bounce mooney airplanes you should try a soft tire taildragger,  Yeh-ha.  Speed control is just as important as in a mooney.  And just like a Mooney, the darn thing will not stop flying if you are even a tiny bit above the wing flying speed.  Most of us learned in the larger land-O-Matic cessnas, and now I know why Cessna developed them they are a cinch to land.  So here is why I'm adding to this thread:  Turbulence.  I routinely fly over the Sierra mountains.  With mountain tops at 12,000 + feet elevation it is really important to assume significant turbulence on every flight  I have an elastic cargo net for the baggage compartment, and my seat MUST be at its lowest elevation.  I have hit the ceiling of the mooney so hard I've been literally dazed and had to tell ATC to standby and wait until I can get back to them.  I hit my head hard enough that it was a serious threat to the safety of the flight.  I am now proactive and lower my seat when there is a forecast for turbulence or I'm mountain flying or in the area of a weather front/convective activity the fourth of july weekend I landed twice at mammoth lakes KMMH with winds gusting to 34K.  With this kind of turbulence I needed to land with my seat low so I didn't take a head hit at a critical stage.  It is really important to me that I practice landing with my seat in both up and down position for just this reason.  I've found that when I have recent taildragger time, frankly I land the Mooney better.  Try it you may like it and frankly its a really fun way to do a flight review; getting a tail wheel endorsement.

I bought my Mooney with a three blade and my prior airplane was a three blade so I'm not super versed in two blade to three blade transition.  However having just transitioned from a three blade to a four blade I can tell you that when I pull all power off (flare to touchdown), the four blade becomes a MASSIVE speed brake.  

My mechanic has cautioned me that the composite prop blades are susceptible to chips or hanger damage from being struck with tow bars, cowling, or just stupid hanger accidents.  He insisted that I make a set of foam blade covers for when the plane is in the hanger and these MUST be on prior to removing the cowling.  It sounds like he was present when a cowling was removed and chipped the backside of a composite propeller.  this doubly makes sense as clearance of the cowling past a >two blade prop is significantly harder.   Yes they are repairable but it takes a lot of time.