Panel mount co 2 detector

[PeteMc]

In a recent FAAST Webinar they discussed the X-Sense XC01 Carbon Monoxide Detector for $30   

https://www.x-sense.com/products/xc01-carbon-monoxide-detector

Right now I have it on the floor between the tank selector and the emerg. gear extension.  I like the the floor location because it is directly in the heat/vent air flow and I can look down and see it.  But I do have blank panel space on the right side, so I'm considering Velcroing it up on the panel.  It would be easier to see up on the panel, but I'm not sure if it would take longer to go off up there.

Edited February 26, 2022 by PeteMc

[Marc_B]

14 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

Right now I have it on the floor between the tank selector and the emerg. gear extension.

Since CO is slightly lighter than air I’ve always heard that it should be mounted more at head level or higher. But I think since the biggest concern is coming in from cabin heat through vent it seems like early alarm might be vent? Of course the cockpit of our plane is small enough my suspicion is it probably wouldn’t matter where as long as you have a detector. Has anyone read any studies on optimal location of CO detectors in aviation?

Panel/eye level seems the best to include it in your scan. Especially to make sure batteries not dead and it’s on. 

[PeteMc]

45 minutes ago, Marc_B said:

But I think since the biggest concern is coming in from cabin heat through vent it seems like early alarm might be vent?

This is why I currently have it on the floor where the heater/vent air blows right over it.  It is plenty loud enough to hear if the alarm goes off and it has a display for the Max ppm it has detected (even if below alarm levels).  So if there's any headache or any other questionable symptoms, you can always check the reading.  And it resets to 0 when you check it.  So if you check it again later and there is an equivalent number showing, you get an idea if you need to have things checked out before they become a real issue.  

Yes, not as good as some of the super high tech ones.  But it looks like it will do the job.

[philiplane]

Any CO detector should be located in your primary scan. Otherwise, you may be relying upon a CO affected brain to look down and check it. A basic principle of a good warning device, is that it should not require effort or input in order for it to help you.

[carusoam]

14 hours ago, PeteMc said:

In a recent FAAST Webinar they discussed the X-Sense XC01 Carbon Monoxide Detector for $30   

https://www.x-sense.com/products/xc01-carbon-monoxide-detector

Right now I have it on the floor between the tank selector and the emerg. gear extension.  I like the the floor location because it is directly in the heat/vent air flow and I can look down and see it.  But I do have blank panel space on the right side, so I'm considering Velcroing it up on the panel.  It would be easier to see up on the panel, but I'm not sure if it would take longer to go off up there.

Do you not remember having kids in the cabin….?  
 

Air is moving around so quickly in the cabin, it doesn’t stay in one place for very long…

Putting the sensor in front of the heat is great if the source is the broken heater… (most common source we see…)

Putting it near your nose is a good idea too… that’s what you are breathing….

Putting it near your ear… great for audible alarms….

 

I don’t think you can go wrong with any placement…. As far as the sensor goes…

Getting the warning is very important as well…

 

Best regards,

-a-

[PeteMc]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

Air is moving around so quickly in the cabin, it doesn’t stay in one place for very long…

And outside air (we'll assume fresh air) comes into the cabin from multiple sources.  One down side in my consideration of moving the CO detector to the right side of the panel is the door seal.  Some years when it's just been changed there is no air leaking, then sometime down the road there are often some leak in our Mooneys.  They start off slow and slowly get worse, until we finally decide to replace the seals again. 

So is the indication going to be as high for the right seat as it is for my seat for those years where there is fresh air coming in around the door?  Yes, I get that none of us hear can say for sure.  But it is a consideration.

[RobertGary1]

20 hours ago, philiplane said:

Any CO detector should be located in your primary scan. Otherwise, you may be relying upon a CO affected brain to look down and check it. A basic principle of a good warning device, is that it should not require effort or input in order for it to help you.

The ones I’ve seen would wake the dead including my sencon No need to see it

[carusoam]

1 minute ago, PeteMc said:

And outside air (we'll assume fresh air) comes into the cabin from multiple sources.  One down side in my consideration of moving the CO detector to the right side of the panel is the door seal.  Some years when it's just been changed there is no air leaking, then sometime down the road there are often some leak in our Mooneys.  They start off slow and slowly get worse, until we finally decide to replace the seals again. 

So is the indication going to be as high for the right seat as it is for my seat for those years where there is fresh air coming in around the door?  Yes, I get that none of us hear can say for sure.  But it is a consideration.

We know from experience…

We can move the sensor around close to where the CO is entering the cabin…. And notice a local high concentration….

 

So, if we put it in a clean airstream… we should notice a difference there as well….

 

For perspective….

if the base line reading on the CO meter is always between 0 and 3….

Then starts showing 10 with an old door seal in place…

or 20 with a new door seal in place….

 

You have noticed a significant change… prompting a search for the cause…

 

The rate CO accumulates in the body vs slowly dissipates out… there isn’t a good way to keep flying with an unknown source of elevated CO….

The next challenge is… the unknown source of elevated CO… can change rapidly… a crack in the exhaust system can open up in a single flight.

 

 

So we have these really accurate measuring devices…. That are extra sensitive…

But… we can’t really get much of the value of their accuracy beyond knowing we have a problem and if it is changing….

My CO alarm announces when the wind conditions are right… while on the ground…  in the run up area….

I know something is up, not exactly how much it is really up without looking at it….

 

We also know that CO enters the cabin in the run-up area all the time…. Or following another fuel burner during taxi….

 

Don’t fear the actual number when it is elevated….

Just know that elevated numbers are worth looking into….

 

The nice thing about the sensorcon units….

There is sooo many other MSers using the same device…. It makes it easy to compare notes on CO experiences….

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

 

[PT20J]

Another option  https://aithreaviation.com/products/aithre-shield-edot-5-0-behind-panel-carbon-monoxide-detector-panel-led-indicator-with-ios-app

[JohnB]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:29 AM, canamex said:

Might be a silly question but why would one spend that kind of money on a CO2 sensor when you could tack up one of those cards with the magic color-changing dot?

The color changing dots should be COMPLETELY removed from the market in my opinion as they give a person false assurance they are doing something that will help protect them. It won't.  Yes they might change colors at some point in case of CO poisoning, but one of the very first of your senses that goes away in case of CO inhalation is your sense of color discrimination. So even if you were extremely lucky enough to look at the dot in some kind of routine scan, or if somehow you felt like you needed to, YOU WOULD HAVE NO IDEA WHAT COLOR IT WAS, therefore the dot wouldn't be helpful to you, but may be helpful to the NTSB reporters if an accident occurred to determine the cause on the ground.

As many of your senses and thought processes are proportionally impaired with increasing levels of  CO poisoning, you need something that gives you the loudest, brightest, most obnoxious warning possible that will get your attention quickly no matter what you're doing as you don't have very long to make decisions with a significant amount of CO in your cockpit. 

 

 

[PT20J]

3 hours ago, JohnB said:

The color changing dots should be COMPLETELY removed from the market in my opinion as they give a person false assurance they are doing something that will help protect them. It won't.  Yes they might change colors at some point in case of CO poisoning, but one of the very first of your senses that goes away in case of CO inhalation is your sense of color discrimination. So even if you were extremely lucky enough to look at the dot in some kind of routine scan, or if somehow you felt like you needed to, YOU WOULD HAVE NO IDEA WHAT COLOR IT WAS, therefore the dot wouldn't be helpful to you, but may be helpful to the NTSB reporters if an accident occurred to determine the cause on the ground.

As many of your senses and thought processes are proportionally impaired with increasing levels of  CO poisoning, you need something that gives you the loudest, brightest, most obnoxious warning possible that will get your attention quickly no matter what you're doing as you don't have very long to make decisions with a significant amount of CO in your cockpit. 

 

 

Not saying you are wrong, but I’ve always read that CO poisoning causes blurred vision. Never heard it caused color blindness. Do you have a reference for that?

Anyway, I believe CO causes the dots to darken rather than change color. Not saying they are as good as a true CO detector though.

[JohnB]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

Not saying you are wrong, but I’ve always read that CO poisoning causes blurred vision. Never heard it caused color blindness. Do you have a reference for that?

Anyway, I believe CO causes the dots to darken rather than change color. Not saying they are as good as a true CO detector though.

There are a ton of references. Here’s one written in plain language but there are several more  written in much more technical language if you would like to search online. 
http://www.faqs.org/health/topics/88/Color-blindness.html
 

The problem with CO is that it causes extreme hypoxia. your color sensing cones in your eyes are much more sensitive to reduction in oxygen. Among many other acutely very bad things CO can cause by displacing oxygen from your red cells that deliver oxygen, making all of your cells hypoxic can cause unconsciousness, blurry vision, altered thinking and it can cause a condition where you retain the memory of different colors but cannot distinguish between them. 
 

This is why I think color changing dots are a bad idea to market, as some pilots think they’re safe flying with one.  You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to notice any difference on the dots at the exact moment before a significant CO exposure began to affect your brain and your senses negatively.  
 

Bottom line, if you’re at all concerned about CO in your cockpit, you need to get an actual CO detector, not a color changing dot. 

[HIghpockets]

I have an Aithre unit attached by velcro to my panel. It has a bluetooth connection to an app on my iPhone.