Inner tube stems

[Dotto]

Hi all. I found straight stemmed inner tubes on my new to me 1962 M20C. I saw that others had questions on stem angles prior to me replacing mine so I attached the photos of the straight and 70* stems.

[RLCarter]

Yep, there was a discussion on these a few months back. The straight rubber stems fail doe to being in a constant bind, 90° metal stem set too close the wheel. Both make it a PITA to service, 70° stems solves these issues.

[Jim Peace]

OMGosh....

I had to deal with this today.

My plane was brought to the Mooney guru of Florida for its annual.  I asked for new tires all around.  I got the tires but not the tubes I wanted.  I went to pick up my plane and the nose tire was flat and the plane looked like it was outside for days.  I asked how long its been flat and outside and just shoulder shrugs.  

So..now the plan was to change out the tube for another new one except they did not even have anything of quality.  but I was told that the one they would put on should be as good as any....they just wanted me out the door being it was near closing time.  

So I got a POS tube, my plane was filthy and I was on my way.  Two months later now go to the hangar and see my nose tire low...22lbs.  

I cant even get the valve cover off without prying the stem away from the wheel with a tool.  

Even after inflated its a bitch.  

I had a nice metal valve cover on there originally but I just realized they replaced it with a cheap plastic one when they could not fit the metal one.

I have an open checkbook mx policy on this plane and I still have issues.  WTF is wrong with mechanics these days.  You should not need to pry a valve stem off of a wheel to get the cap off.  How can you let it leave a shop like that after an annual.

To take it back would take an entire day out of my life.  Its not around the corner.

 

UPDATE:  MX shop just called me and said my email was threatening and not to bring the plane back.  Here is the email in its entirety :

<<<<<<You just did my annual and we had that issue with my new nose tire and tube being deflated when I picked it up. I knew it would be an issue even when you fixed it and said it would be fine. So just two months after my annual my tire was flat this morning. Went to put air in it and found that the valve stem is so tight against the wheel. Also my metal cap has been replaced by a cheap plastic one. I see this was done because of the spacing. 

So now what do I do? I had a air stop tube on there that never gave me an issue. You threw it away and gave me a substandard replacement. 

It will take a whole day off for me to fly to Avon park.

Just upset. I have an open checkbook mx policy on this plane and with that I still have issues.>>>>>>

 

[Andy95W]

Jim, it sounds like you should be doing more of your own maintenance.  Replacing tires/tubes is preventive maintenance that an owner can legally accomplish on his own, to include logbook entry.  That way, you would’ve been sure to get the tube you wanted.

ISTM a lot of your other issues could also have been avoided by doing more of your own work under the supervision of an A&P.  You keep complaining about mechanics, but it looks like you’re not doing anything different to prevent these problems.

[Jim Peace]

17 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

 You keep complaining about mechanics, but it looks like you’re not doing anything different to prevent these problems.

100% correct....but I am only home a limited amount of time and want to use that time to fly....not get greased up.  Me writing checks as large as it takes should be enough.  But its not.  

So I am not sure what to do at this point.  An owner should be able to communicate what he wants and the mechanic/shop owner should be able to do the job correctly in exchange for money.  

I make sure my checks clear,,,,if we could just get the mechanics to do the job correctly life would be good.  

I know very little about A/C mx procedures.  But I know throttles should not disconnect on the first flight and new tires and tubes should not be flat when picking them up on day 1 from the shop and I have a pretty good idea that carb heat is a required item on a carb equipped airplane not to be dismantled.  Is there really something wrong with me? Or is it that mx shops are running a bit loose with a lack of FAA oversight..

I pay my bills the minute received.  That should be enough. 

[RLCarter]

I’m not sure if the 70° stems are available for the 5” tires on the nose. The nose wheel isn’t near the pain the mains were, or at least not for me. 

[carusoam]

Sounds like it’s time to get to know two mechanics... really well.

and visit both often...

select one that is older with tons of experience...

Select the other who wants to have tons of experience...

Mooney ownership can be decades long... the old guy might retire...

Best regards,

-a-

[A64Pilot]

You need to find a better shop, about the only way is by word of mouth.

‘Not everyone has the knack for turning wrenches, you just have different skill sets is all, I don’t expect my CPA to know how to time magnetos, and  he knows I have no desire to learn about taxes.

‘If you can’t trust then to change a tire, can you trust them to work on your landing gear?

Edited May 4, 2021 by A64Pilot

[outermarker]

So, what tire and tube resolved this issue? Was a tube with an angle used, and does that tube hold air throughout the year? I'm asking because it is time for me to change my tires and tubes. I, too, have straight stems and live in fear of ruining the inner tube by pulling the stem away to check and apply air. Goodyear FS III has been on it since I bought it, and I'll assume the inner tube is also a Goodyear. The FS III is the only tire using Kevlar and has a speed rating of 160mph. Currently, a Goodyear FS III and tube are over $500; therefore, spending around $1500 for three tires and tubes and then the labor costs is a bit steep for the shallow pockets I wear. I have a lightweight, short-bodied E.

A perfect scenario for me would have these elements. 

Inner tube:

     1. the tube holds air throughout the year without leaking. 

     2. the valve stem with the metal cap on doesn't rub, lie against, or interfere with anything.

Tire:

     1.  easy to balance or balancing is not required

     2.  good tread depth

     3.  resistant to dry rot or cracking after a few years

Is there a tire and tube that meets all of the above?  Surely there have to be people out there who are overjoyed with their tires and tubes AND happy with the price paid for the tires and tubes. I would really like to hear from you.

thanks!

  

[Andy95W]

We just talked about this a little bit ago.

You’ll see links for the inner tubes with 70° stems that are made of the same rubber as the Michelin Airstop tubes.

Also, you can send a message to Jim Peace and ask him what he bought.

[Matthew P]

to degree for nose, 90 degree for mains...getting to the point you can't even rely on the MSCs to do a good job anymore.

 

[Mkruger2021]

HI Everyone, I need a tube for the nose. Ive tried both the goodyear and the aeroclasic. The stems are way too long to fit the dust cover. Does anyone have a part number for the short 90 degree or 70 degree that will allow the dust cover to go on the wheel? this is turning into a real PITA....

 

 

 

[Jim Peace]

7 hours ago, Mkruger2021 said:

HI Everyone, I need a tube for the nose. Ive tried both the goodyear and the aeroclasic. The stems are way too long to fit the dust cover. Does anyone have a part number for the short 90 degree or 70 degree that will allow the dust cover to go on the wheel? this is turning into a real PITA....

 

 

 

I did flight custom 3 all around with the M airstop tube for the nose and a different brand tube for the mains.  The guys I used for the install let's just say were average, I am being kind.  The valve stem touches the side of the wheel where my last one did not....I will have to use a screwdriver to get a pressure fitting on...My mains with the 70 degree stems are great.  enclosed is a picture of my nose.  Pictures of the rest are in that other thread I think.  Also be sure that if you have hubcaps on your mains that your mechanic puts on and tightens all three screws.  Otherwise you will have to hope the shop steps up and does the right thing,,,these guys at least did that...

[Mkruger2021]

So Michelin Airstop Tube....Thank You....Ditto to the rest....I'm aware of the bolts and the stem issue.....

[Hank]

Airstops are great! I usually adjust air pressure in my tires now two or three times a year.

[outermarker]

Today I attempted to install a new LEAKGUARD tube with 70 degree stem on the main rim. The new tube has about a 1/4” of rubber at the stem base that has to seat through the stem hole on the rim. I could not get the rim mounted onto the tire and the valve completely through and seated into the stem hole. I gave up completely defeated. What’s the secret? 

[Jim Peace]

6 hours ago, outermarker said:

Today I attempted to install a new LEAKGUARD tube with 70 degree stem on the main rim. The new tube has about a 1/4” of rubber at the stem base that has to seat through the stem hole on the rim. I could not get the rim mounted onto the tire and the valve completely through and seated into the stem hole. I gave up completely defeated. What’s the secret? 

pictures of everything including wheels please

[outermarker]

I don’t get an opportunity to give back and I’m so grateful to everyone who gives me help.

This is an opportunity to perhaps help others. For those changing their tires and tubes I’ve enclosed a photo of the 70 degrees valve stem installed on the main tire. I used a Harbor Freight mini tire changer($56) to break the tire bead. Some hiccups I encountered. I wanted to use new bolts, washers and nuts on the rim halves. What I had was too long so additional washers were used. The bolt p/n in the Mooney parts manual was 1/8 too short. Also, the nut is a high temperature nut. Aircraft Spruce only has Nylock for that size. Nylock can be used on the nose wheel. What I learned was that I should have checked the Cleveland Parts Manual for the bolt length. So much for a DIY project!

[Matthew P]

70 degree on mains and 90 degree on nose works perfectly

[Jim Peace]

15 hours ago, Matthew P said:

70 degree on mains and 90 degree on nose works perfectly

depends on the installer....so I found out.....having a A&P and a business that works on planes does not mean anything.....