NicoN Posted August 25, 2020 Report Posted August 25, 2020 Have some Mooniacs experiences with th SureFly Ignition system on a M20K with TSIO360-GB engine? I heard rumours that some have problems with CHT rising after installing it. I know, that turbocharged engines can not use the timing-advance feature. Quote
aviatoreb Posted August 25, 2020 Report Posted August 25, 2020 3 hours ago, NicoN said: Have some Mooniacs experiences with th SureFly Ignition system on a M20K with TSIO360-GB engine? I heard rumours that some have problems with CHT rising after installing it. I know, that turbocharged engines can not use the timing-advance feature. I have it on my M20K - but a rocket - so a TSIO520NB. My experience is that all the temps decreased. The CHT, the EGT and the TIT all decreased. Whether lean of peak of rich of peak everything is cooler. And I can more easily run lean of peak now, and also rich of peak or lean of peak I am burning less fuel. I think it is the timing advance in N/A which is causing cht to rise and we do not get that with the turbo version. 1 Quote
Danb Posted August 25, 2020 Report Posted August 25, 2020 6 hours ago, aviatoreb said: I have it on my M20K - but a rocket - so a TSIO520NB. My experience is that all the temps decreased. The CHT, the EGT and the TIT all decreased. Whether lean of peak of rich of peak everything is cooler. And I can more easily run lean of peak now, and also rich of peak or lean of peak I am burning less fuel. I think it is the timing advance in N/A which is causing cht to rise and we do not get that with the turbo version. Erik I was going to call you regarding the cht temps, I’ve read numerous had cht increase in temps around 10-15* which would be a nonstarter for me. I’m glad to hear your chts went down. I’ve had a nice decrease changing baffling and would like to keep it that way. Also did you change the wiring harness thanks DB Plane went in annual yesterday I asked for a guesstimate. Are you glad you did the conversion Quote
aviatoreb Posted August 25, 2020 Report Posted August 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Danb said: Erik I was going to call you regarding the cht temps, I’ve read numerous had cht increase in temps around 10-15* which would be a nonstarter for me. I’m glad to hear your chts went down. I’ve had a nice decrease changing baffling and would like to keep it that way. Also did you change the wiring harness thanks DB Plane went in annual yesterday I asked for a guesstimate. Are you glad you did the conversion Hi Dan, Of course you are more than welcome to call me (you still have my number?) and/or pm me or maybe I can help you here? Yes definitely my temps went down a little but in the cht and more than a little bit in the egt and tit. Like I said - we don't get the timing advance and my guess is that is causing temps to rise in the N/A folks. I think N/A folks are free to not do timing advance and then they too will not have temps rise. I can't say exactly why temps went down a bit in the CHT but they did. Yes I got a new wiring harness. Also I got the electroair button switch - initially I did not and there was an annoying (but not problematic) tiny skip during mag check and the buttons make for a more purpose built cleaner mag check - and it is fun starting up by pressing buttons instead of turning a key. Quote
carusoam Posted August 26, 2020 Report Posted August 26, 2020 Things that we can expect with the SureFlight ignition... 1) The strong spark initiates the fuel burn a microsecond sooner than the lazy old spark... 2) This has a similar affect of the lazy old spark being set a few microseconds early...possibly a degree or two more BTDC... 3) When the ignition timing is advanced, on purpose or by strong initiation, the CHTs increase because More fuel burns to completion within the cylinder.... 4) Higher completion, less burning in the exhaust, leads to cooler EGTs and TIT.... 5) Why Erik is blessed with lower CHTs deserves a closer look... possible invention hiding in here... 6) there is something I can’t grasp with this one... 7) Possible Pi-plane ignition conundrum... early ignition: high CHT, low EGT/TIT... higher power... late ignition: Low CHT, high EGT/TIT... lower power... Pi-plane: early ignition, low CHT, Low EGT/TIT... high power... (sounds ideal) Send Ross @Shadrach a ping for a deeper discussion... Of course, deep enough LOP, with a TC’d engine... more unburned air can help make this happen.... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote
N231BN Posted August 27, 2020 Report Posted August 27, 2020 Things that we can expect with the SureFlight ignition... 1) The strong spark initiates the fuel burn a microsecond sooner than the lazy old spark... 2) This has a similar affect of the lazy old spark being set a few microseconds early...possibly a degree or two more BTDC... 3) When the ignition timing is advanced, on purpose or by strong initiation, the CHTs increase because More fuel burns to completion within the cylinder.... 4) Higher completion, less burning in the exhaust, leads to cooler EGTs and TIT.... 5) Why Erik is blessed with lower CHTs deserves a closer look... possible invention hiding in here... 6) there is something I can’t grasp with this one... 7) Possible Pi-plane ignition conundrum... early ignition: high CHT, low EGT/TIT... higher power... late ignition: Low CHT, high EGT/TIT... lower power... Pi-plane: early ignition, low CHT, Low EGT/TIT... high power... (sounds ideal) Send Ross [mention=8069]Shadrach[/mention] a ping for a deeper discussion... Of course, deep enough LOP, with a TC’d engine... more unburned air can help make this happen.... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- The earlier in the power stroke that you can safely burn all of the fuel, the more power you can extract from the heat energy. The hotter spark is probably making a more efficient combustion process, perhaps his mags were getting a little weak. Anyway, the more heat energy you can extract, the less that needs to be dissipated through the cylinder walls. A&P IA thoughts only, I'm not a thermodynamicist Quote
NicoN Posted August 27, 2020 Author Report Posted August 27, 2020 Sorry to ask: what is a “Pi-Plane”. ? Quote
Danb Posted August 27, 2020 Report Posted August 27, 2020 Pi sign Erik is our supreme mathematical genius. 1 Quote
aviatoreb Posted August 27, 2020 Report Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, NicoN said: Sorry to ask: what is a “Pi-Plane”. ? I can riff on that: Pi is a real number that is irrational somewhere between 3 and 4. A biplane is a plane with exactly 2 (complete) wings. A Pi plane would then be, by this argument an airplane with somewhere between 3 and 4 complete wings. However, my Pi plane is an airplane that is owned by an irrational mathematician because it only has two complete wings. There are 3 kinds of mathematicians. Those that can count and those that cannot. But, its worse than that, because trying to count to Pi is silly since one counts in the set of natural numbers that is a proper subset of the set of irrational numbers and since Pi is irrational but not natural, we should not try to count to Pi. So even counting 3 mathematicians isn't enough and 4 mathematicians would be too much and it is hard to imagine how to split that up, even if we are allowing imaginary mathematicians. Signed Erik Bollt, proud owner of N3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286208998628034825342117068....EB Edited August 28, 2020 by aviatoreb 1 1 2 1 1 Quote
NicoN Posted August 28, 2020 Author Report Posted August 28, 2020 Thank you for clarification. We have a natural number of 2 magnetos in our M20K. A subset of 1 Magneto stopped working properly.To be precise: 1 Quantum of sparks became irreal. As a SureFly ignition costs only slightly more than a imaginary overhauled magneto. So, the question was: could this be the oppoertunity to switch to a technology which is advertised as being working for infinite time. The answer is NO. by co-owners wanted to stay conservative with natural number of 2 magnetos. Not 1, not 3 - just 2! I am afraid to tell you, that the bill for this project has definitely real numbers :-(((( Quote
carusoam Posted August 29, 2020 Report Posted August 29, 2020 Having co-owners never sounded so irrational, until today... Or was that yesterday..? +1 for Erik’s response... it got a perfect score... one reply of each type... a full house! Best regards, -a- 2 Quote
bmcconnaha Posted September 11, 2020 Report Posted September 11, 2020 I’m really hoping surefly and lycoming can get a solution figured out for us a3b6D drivers. The J runs cool enough it could tolerate a small bump in CHT for the efficiency gain provided by variable timing advance. Quote
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