How high is too high? (TTAF)

[Wrench978]

I am going to look at a 1970 M20F this weekend.  The pictures look great.  Nice interior,  decent paint,  430W, a couple speed mods, but stock windshield (could be a blessing or curse, depending on future avionics work).  The engine was overhauled in 2011, but is high time at 1800 SMOH.  that doesn't bother me.  I can probably get a couple years out of it then overhaul.  my big question is the TTAF at ~11,000 hrs.  the general consensus in my search here has been that as long as the plane was maintained well, TT will really only affect resale.  So assuming the price is right and the maintenance has been kept up, should I be worried about the hours?  and how much would the time take off the value of the plane?  

[Niko182]

7 minutes ago, Wrench978 said:

I am going to look at a 1970 M20F this weekend.  The pictures look great.  Nice interior,  decent paint,  430W, a couple speed mods, but stock windshield (could be a blessing or curse, depending on future avionics work).  The engine was overhauled in 2011, but is high time at 1800 SMOH.  that doesn't bother me.  I can probably get a couple years out of it then overhaul.  my big question is the TTAF at ~11,000 hrs.  the general consensus in my search here has been that as long as the plane was maintained well, TT will really only affect resale.  So assuming the price is right and the maintenance has been kept up, should I be worried about the hours?  and how much would the time take off the value of the plane?  

No. There a plenty of planes such as bonanzas and even mooneys with over 25000 hours total times. I believe nasa conducted an experiment a couple decade with a cherokee. They got it up to somewhere around 70,000 hours. Planes maintained well that dont have any short cuts will outlive you easily. Just come to terms with that if your thinking about this, so will the next person when or of you decide to sell it. Just get a really thourough prebuy and youll be set.

 

Additional note: id be worried more about a plane that has little time that a lot of time. Someone who rarely flies a plane doesnt put the most thought into maintaining a plane because theyll rarely use it. Someome who flys a plane a ton realizes that benifits of keeping a plane as safe as possible. In my opinion your are more likely to have a better maintained airplane that has 11,000 hours and has been flown 1800 hours in the last 8 years, than a plane that has 1489 hours and has been flown 74 hours in the last 8 years. This year had a lot of catch up maintainence for the aircraft that had 1489 hours, including a new prop and a 16k annual.

[rbridges]

I agree with Niko that if the plane is in good shape and maintained well, it would outlast most of us.  If you plan on unloading the plane, you know the high hours will turn away prospective buyers.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Wrench978 said:

I am going to look at a 1970 M20F this weekend.  The pictures look great.  Nice interior,  decent paint,  430W, a couple speed mods, but stock windshield (could be a blessing or curse, depending on future avionics work).  The engine was overhauled in 2011, but is high time at 1800 SMOH.  that doesn't bother me.  I can probably get a couple years out of it then overhaul.  my big question is the TTAF at ~11,000 hrs.  the general consensus in my search here has been that as long as the plane was maintained well, TT will really only affect resale.  So assuming the price is right and the maintenance has been kept up, should I be worried about the hours?  and how much would the time take off the value of the plane?  

Technically, all 1970 M20F's have the same total time on airframe, it's just the flying hours that might be different 

I recall a SavvyMx webinar where MB suggested the fatigue life of the large structural members is something on the order of 20-30k hours.

In terms of resale, I imagine the airframe is already devalued to the point where it is a "runout" airframe--most of the value is from the equipment and motor, so the airframe cannot substantially devalue the total value of the aircraft further (unless you're buying an airframe with a runout motor and basic equipment as well)...

Edited May 13, 2019 by jaylw314

[Aerodon]

20 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

In terms of resale, I imagine the airframe is already devalued to the point where it is a "runout" airframe--most of the value is from the equipment and motor, so the airframe cannot substantially devalue the total value of the aircraft further (unless you're buying an airframe with a runout motor and basic equipment as well)...

Theres the problem, it will always be devalued, so when you put in a new engine and avionics, interior etc they get devalued too.  Not fair, but its what's going to happen.  I almost always pay a premium and buy a low TT plane.  I don't believe higher TT or engine time  planes get discounted enough, and the converse applies too - pay 10% more than average and you get 25% more plane.