Is your plane airworthy?

[Skates97]

3 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

I think everyone here would agree with that.  Isn't this your fourth annual on this plane?  One of the things I get with my annual is an exhaustive list of possible ADs and whether they are applicable to my specific plane.  Is that something that folks generally try to do themselves when they do their annuals in their own hangar with the IA just dropping by for the inspection part?

Are you using www.adlog.com for yours? I signed up with them before my first annual and then proceeded to spend hours going through the list that they sent and all the logs to make sure everything had been complied with. I (and my IA) think we got them all covered. But as @Yetti posted, you don't know what you don't know.

[mooniac15u]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

I think that is the issue, Checking for ADs for this Annual assumes that all the prior people did their job properly.  Let's say you have an entry that the "Oil Pump gear replaced"   Since there were three replacements of oil gears, it's really hard to know which ones are in your engine.   But your AD log would look complete and accurate. 

Is this Airworthy because it was not leaking?

The threads buggured from a pair of channel locks and the teflon tape, It was only airworthy till it was found.

 

 

If I don't see a specific AD cited then it hasn't been complied with. A logbook entry like you mention with the oil pump gear wouldn't cut it for me (or probably the FAA either).

In the case of the injection servo did you know about it and believe it had been complied with or didn't know about it all?  Your original post sounded more like the latter. 

The airworthiness of the fitting in the picture is a completely different issue if there isn't an AD related to it. There's legal airworthiness and there's practical airworthiness. Both are important. 

[mooniac15u]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

Are you using www.adlog.com for yours? I signed up with them before my first annual and then proceeded to spend hours going through the list that they sent and all the logs to make sure everything had been complied with. I (and my IA) think we got them all covered. But as @Yetti posted, you don't know what you don't know.

I don't know which service they use. I rely on a combination of that report and the shop's experience. I do review the report and do some double checking but I know that as an amateur I'm more likely to miss something. 

I constantly see MS threads about the $700 annual where the IA shows up for about an hour and I wonder if those owners are getting any professional help with AD research. If the cost of that approach is increased risk of missing ADs then maybe they aren't such a bargain after all. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Yetti said:

I think the takeaway is if you buy a plane just because it has years of certified mechanics looking at it saying it is airworthy does not mean it by definition it is airworthy.    Finding the alternator bracket upside down was kind of the icing on the cake for this annual.

The fact that it took until this Annual to find the mis installed alternator bracket just proves that no maintainer will find everything on the first few looks at any airframe.  While it wasn’t correct and technically “un airworthy” it didn’t seem to affect its ability to fly.

Clarence

[mike_elliott]

On 3/29/2019 at 10:47 PM, Hank said:

Wish I knew. I'm not allowed to help, and he keeps saying "maybe next week." Most recently, the day before yesterday.

Hank, Bid on the annual from JD or AGL, Daytona or Oasis this year at the Summit. As the donation chairman, you will have the certificates in your hands before the event even

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mooniac15u said:

I don't know which service they use. I rely on a combination of that report and the shop's experience. I do review the report and do some double checking but I know that as an amateur I'm more likely to miss something. 

I constantly see MS threads about the $700 annual where the IA shows up for about an hour and I wonder if those owners are getting any professional help with AD research. If the cost of that approach is increased risk of missing ADs then maybe they aren't such a bargain after all. 

An Ad search is not beyond the skill of most licensed pilots.  Make a list of the airframe, engine, propeller and all installed equipment, then go the the FAA AD page and search each item.  Tedious, but not difficult make a spread sheet and enter the data.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

Clarence

[Hank]

16 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

Hank, Bid on the annual from JD or AGL, Daytona or Oasis this year at the Summit. As the donation chairman, you will have the certificates in your hands before the event even

 

Well, now that you've put it out in the open, people would notice if one gets "lost" on the way to the Beach . . . . .     Boy, I really miss my 2-3 weeks owner-assist annuals in the Maintenance Hangar back in WV . . .

[mooniac15u]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

An Ad search is not beyond the skill of most licensed pilots.  Make a list of the airframe, engine, propeller and all installed equipment, then go the the FAA AD page and search each item.  Tedious, but not difficult make a spread sheet and enter the data.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

Clarence

That's exactly what I do but the way the site is arranged it would be easy to miss things. If you browse through the manufacturers list there are something like 4 different names for Mooney. 

The original post in this thread reads like "Did any of you know about this AD?" so I wonder how many folks are missing something in their searches. 

[Yetti]

From the OH supposedly there is a throttle plate that is an issue.  Still have not found the AD.    Three company names.   Bendix, Precision Airmotive, Kelly Aerospace.   If you search by Mooney those are mostly Airframe.   If you search by Lycomig it may be there, but there are lots to work through.

The only ones I found related to fuel servo are 2009-02-03 The loose plug and 2012-03-06 bad diaphragm (on the AD list from the IA's service we went through first annual on the plane)

The engine seems to run noticeably smoother.  It does not take much on the idle adjustment screw.   It's about a 25 RPM rise on shutdown.

[mooniac15u]

11 hours ago, Yetti said:

From the OH supposedly there is a throttle plate that is an issue.  Still have not found the AD.    Three company names.   Bendix, Precision Airmotive, Kelly Aerospace.   If you search by Mooney those are mostly Airframe.   If you search by Lycomig it may be there, but there are lots to work through.

The only ones I found related to fuel servo are 2009-02-03 The loose plug and 2012-03-06 bad diaphragm (on the AD list from the IA's service we went through first annual on the plane)

The engine seems to run noticeably smoother.  It does not take much on the idle adjustment screw.   It's about a 25 RPM rise on shutdown.

This AD is listed under Lycoming Engines.  The Lycoming section is actually very well organized.  In @M20Doc's link use the navigation pane on the left and under "Current ADs" click on "By Make" then click on the "L" at the top of the page.  Scroll down to "Lycoming Engines" and you will find each specific engine model is listed separately.  Find your engine and you will see all the ADs.  For the IO-360-A1A there are about 30 ADs including 2009-02-03.

FWIW, there are a couple ways to access the AD list.  I think the UI is a little better on this one: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/airworthiness_directives/

There's a search box and below that there are three tabs for browsing.  The full list by Make/Model is on the far right.

[Yetti]

22 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

This AD is listed under Lycoming Engines.  The Lycoming section is actually very well organized.  In @M20Doc's link use the navigation pane on the left and under "Current ADs" click on "By Make" then click on the "L" at the top of the page.  Scroll down to "Lycoming Engines" and you will find each specific engine model is listed separately.  Find your engine and you will see all the ADs.  For the IO-360-A1A there are about 30 ADs including 2009-02-03.

FWIW, there are a couple ways to access the AD list.  I think the UI is a little better on this one: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/airworthiness_directives/

There's a search box and below that there are three tabs for browsing.  The full list by Make/Model is on the far right.

Thanks I think I used that search.   The trick was not to use manufacture but model RSA-5.    It still does not show the throttle plate issue.  Which for some reason I remember hearing about like the screws came undone and the plate went wonky.  I guess we will have to just go with the 12 year overhaul SB from Precision or Bendix or Kelly Aero Space.  

[mooniac15u]

21 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Thanks I think I used that search.   The trick was not to use manufacture but model RSA-5.    It still does not show the throttle plate issue.  Which for some reason I remember hearing about like the screws came undone and the plate went wonky.  I guess we will have to just go with the 12 year overhaul SB from Precision or Bendix or Kelly Aero Space.  

Searching is ok if you happen to find what you're looking for but I think this demonstrates the limitations of their search engine.  That's why I was pointing out the browse mode.  In addition to searching for specific items I have used the full listing to display all ADs associated with my engine and my airframe.  It lets me see things that I might not have searched for or that I might have missed in searches due to terminology issues.

Google searches will also retrieve this AD because they crawl the full-text rather than just using whatever keywords the FAA is searching.

[Yetti]

I did a search for Lycoming and then search within results for A1A.  Which I think was consistent with the IA's service.   But I believe there were a couple of difference.   Generally I think the AD process is designed for planes and IAs that keep up with ADs year by year.   If something was missed 10 years ago or you are trying to bring a plane back from the dead.   It is a struggle.   Which makes starting with a new IA.  very difficult.