Mooney Missile

[Seth]

As many of you know I have been looking to upgrade from my 1967 M20F.  I've put about 400 hours on her over the past 2.5 years, earned my Instrument Rating, about to earn my Commerical, and have made the decision to sell and purchase as opposed to modify my bird. 

As some of you also know, I decided not to move forward with the purchase of a 252.  I did have a contract on it and was not personally satisfied after the prebuy insepction.  I can speak with you about that aircaft if you'd like via PM.

I have let certian people know that I'm looking, and a local Mooney Misslie is about to go on the market.  I may have a chance to make an offer before this occurs and save the current owner some hassle.  The problem is, I don't know enough about market value of the Missile, as there aren't any listed on controller, barnstormers, and I have yet to look at trade-a-plane or ASO.  Evidently it is a "sweet" and well maintained Missile.

This is a 1993 MSE converted to a Missile.  About 950 since the conversion, 1400 TT on the airframe, with a TOP overhaul in the past few years.  The owner is moving up to a turboprop.  It has a garmin 530 (not sure if it's WAAS - but with this guy I'd suspect so), flight director, 3 axis autopilot with altitude select, engine monitor (mine does not have any of those) and the fuel tanks are not leaking.  No gear up history, but I haven't perused the logs yet for other damage.  Also, evidently it has good paint.  I have not personally viewed the aircraft closely, but I have seen it at one of the local fields and my mechanics at the MSC all say its a no brainer to purchase (not just so they can work on it, but because they say its a well maintained bird and it makes sense for me). 

My mission - Faster than a 1967F.  I was looking at basically, the 252 and early Ovations.  The ovations seem to be just out of my comfortable price range.  Moving up to a M20J/201 just doesn't make sense to me.  I get 148 sometimes even 150 knots (zero wind) out of my F, and for an extra 10 knots, unless it's a screaming deal, it just doesn't make sense.  I would love FIKI, but again, I think that it would be out of my comfortable price range at this point.  If I go turbo, only a 252.  Later in life, I do plan to get a larger aircraft that can seat 6 or more, have FIKI, be pressurized, and move.  At that time, it may be a twin, single engine turbprop, twin turbocharged, who knows - maybe just a piece of a plane for long flights.  This aircaft, would be my fun to fly and less than x amount of miles bird.  It would be my primary for now and the near future.  My 67F has been great, but as mentioned, there's no GPS in panel, no AP (yes wing leveler), no engine monitor, needs a paint job, and is a 1967 - the Missile aircraft would be a 1993. 

Resale - should I want to sell in 10 years, the 1967 would be better than 50 years old - the 1993 would still be under 30 years old - but it would be a "modded" aircraft.

The Missile intrigues me because unlike the Rocket (I mean no offense to the Rocket people who swear by them on this board) my MSC says that conversion is fine.  They suggest I do not pursue Rocket's at this time.  I've spoken with many people about the Rocket and I'm 50/50 as to the validity of that statement, but I am not pursing them.  I am also not pursing at this time a turbo F.  I realize the Missile is a very similar modification by Rocket engineering, just a separate engine, and I think, though I'm not sure about a separte prop.

I looked up this Mooney online on flightaware, and speeds were 175 to 190 most of the time on the last five or six flights.  Yes, I won't get up above all the weather, but I haven't done that currently anyway.  I've flown to the west coast, do not yet have oxygen in my plane (I plan to - this one may have oxygen built in) but need to for weather avoidence in the future.  For certain trips, I would love to climb up into the mid teens and let the wind push my while sipping gas - the 300 hp will get me up there. 

So, I realize this post has rambled, and no, I have not spell checked (not on my home computer) but please do let me know the following:

1.  Gotchas of the Missile - What are the big headaches?

2.  Is the Missile going to be a hard sell down the road - Does the "modded" stigma lower the purchase price (good now, bad later)

3.  Turbo - I know what some turbo people think but - I'm based on the east Coast.  I have however traveled to the west coast once, Chicago and MN a few times, and Texas a few times in my F.  Is it wrong not to just go turbo despite the higher costs?  I wouldn't go Bravo and the only Turbo would be a 252.

4.  Fair market value - what have Missiles gone for recently?  It will help me justify my offer to his asking price (which I don't even know yet - I'm calling him for details later today).

5.  Thoughts - anything anyone wants to mention.  I have always valued the collective knowlege of this board (though "group think" can be very dangerous

 

Thanks,

-Seth

 

[Hank]

I just got my new MAPA LOG this week, and there's another valuation article in it. Are you a member, or know someone who is? Jimmy Garrison is very  knowledgable in the Mooney market.

[Seth]

Thank Hank - PM Sent

[John Pleisse]

Personally, I avoid anything modified, with prejudice. J's were flight tested for thousands of hours with an IO360A3B6D. It was your mechanic who told me over a decade ago to "always go stock"......Tommy's exact words. I gotta figure a nice Missle of that vintage would go in the $170-$200k range. There are plenty of certified, unmodified Mooneys you could buy in that price strata with similar performance and never roll the dice. Just my $.02  . To turbo or not? Throw raw horsepower at it and have fewer headaches.

[carusoam]

Seth,

I had similar questions a couple of years ago..... (that's how long ago I joined mooneyspace)

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=3&threadid=320

This is the thread I started regarding Mooney Missiles....

I took the sage advice, adjusted it to my situation, and now I am happy Ovation owner...

As far as valuations go.  It is a J with a $40k engine installed in it.  If it is run out, it is a J with a $40K expense coming.

Enjoy the search.

-a-

[KSMooniac]

The early Ovations can be had for under $200k these days, and they have pushed the Missile valuations downward accordingly.  In fact, the Bravo and Ovation models more or less obsoleted the Missile and Rocket conversion market, although they are fine planes and still supported from everything I've read.

The 1993 MSE airframe should be really, really nice compared to your 67 F and my 77 J, and putting the IO-550 up front will make it a "poor man's" Ovation, or close enough.  The only major difference will be the mid-body fuselage of the J vs. the long body of the R.  Without knowing the exact specifics of the candidate Missile, I suspect the value would be somewhere in the 150-175k range, but that is just a guess on my part.

As far as mission specifics, I lust for a turbo-normalizer in my J because I travel far enough to justify climbing into the teens (even in the plains here) to make it pay off.  I also like to go to CO or further west, and that makes it much easier as well.  I've not flown much on the east coast so I don't know if it relatively easy or not to climb up on a long trip.  Useful load is another important parameter with the mission... make sure you check actual useful loads on any candidate airplane to see if it will do what you want since they vary quite a bit.  I think earlier Missiles were in the 1100 lbs range, but by 1993 the luxuries added enough weight to reduce that quite a bit so no telling what this plane has.  (Same goes for any Mooney...)

[Cris]

Seth- I have spent the better part of a year looking at A/C. I have several thousand hours in various Mooneys most of which I owned including E's, J's, K's, R's, & my current 310 HP S. I only mention this as back ground for my comments. There are many with much better quals on this site than me. I like you have been primarily an East Coast flyer out of NJ and even spent quite a bit of time flying into & out of Gaithersburg in the 90's. When I "moved up" from early J's (78 & 81) & bought the K 1980 (231) it was not long before I realized that it took more runway to take off & more runway to land. At the time I was flying out of N07, Lincoln Park, with trees at one end & 2800 feet with a serious fence installed to avoid the road. It carried less payload due to built in O2 & a ton of equipment that typically required a lot of AMU's to keep operational & it used more fuel. It was particularly anoying to wait for the turbo to cool down on a hot summer day so that I would not cook the bearings. Likewise waiting for the engine to warm up on a cold day was also frustrating. I sold that A/C & went "back" to an 84' J which typically gave me 164 Kts. on 10-11 GPH. Yes, it was a fast J & the latter ones generally are faster although the "book numbers" don't recognize that very well. For my money the J is the best GA plane for the buck going. So how did I end my with a Screamin' Eagle. Frankly I believe that any purchase decision has to be based on the sell decision. You will sell the A/C- eventually. Since the factory long ago dropped the J & most flyers seem to want the latest & greatest a long body R seemed to be the best bet but out of my budget in some respects & in a way much more complex meaning it will cost more to maintain. Wait till you get the bill to fix the KFC 150/225 autopilot! The late model J's & Eagles were similarly priced & I wanted relative newness: 1999, simplicity (stec 30) & decent modern avionics (HSI, Garmin GMX200, GDL69 weather). I also wanted wass but did not get it & now have come to realize I do not fly any place that has wass approaches & Ils's work just fine for me. Mostly I wanted the  similar T/L performance as I had with the J. Hence the decision to buy the 310 HP Eagle. Now I did consider the Missle & have done some research on them but as the writers above point out it is really a modified J. Parts will become an issue as time goes on if not for you then for the next purchaser who will keep it in mind when making you an offer. There is a much smaller market for a modified A/C like the Missle than for a factory A/C like the Ovation. It will be worth only what someone will pay for it & more to the point if compared to an R or S most folks will buy the factory version. So I know there are those that swear by the Missle & I do not wish to offend anyone reading this so please no bad comments. This is just how my recent buying decision left me pineing for a J but buying an S. BTW in case you are wondering why I would buy a modified S the factory licenses the same STC from Midwest Mooney to provide their 310 HP Ovation 3 so in some respects I now have an Ovation 3 -3368lbs with 100 gals of fuel and better payload. Hope it helps. Cris   

[scottfromiowa]

Seth:

If under $160AMU's sounds like a great deal with described equipment.  If more why not a Screaming Eagle?  Either way post some photos

[RJBrown]

 I am a former Rocket owner, and hopefully again in the future. The comment about the "poor mans" Ovation is only true in the best way. Though they may be a more capable plane they do cost less to acquire in today's market. Rocket engineering looked at the TLS and seriously one upped it. Higher, faster, further, better load carrying and all on less fuel. The Missile was an offshoot of the Rocket and compares as well to the Ovation series. The ONLY down side is the smaller cabin. With their 8 point engine mounts they are even stronger than what Mooney sold.

 Mooney COPIED Rocket in the use of Continental engines. Rocket Engineering is a stable company. Mooney is ???? The factory support for Rockets and Missiles is much better than from Mooney themselves. Rocket is currently putting turbo prop engines in Piper PA-46 and Beech Duke, Bonanza and Barons. They changed with the market and are still a viable concern. The strength of their business allows complete support for their Mooney line.

Today's market has been even harder on these conversion than the rest. This makes them an extremely good value today.

[AustinChurch]

Seth, I PM'd you my phone number since I own a Missile.  Call me and I'll give you an owners perspective to the aircraft.