AndyFromCB Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 Not quite "nothing." A lot of rudder and some pitch control ... Then for style points just a little aileron to "lean" (bank slightly) towards the good engine ... But you are pretty much spot on Andy ... Isn't the rudder boosted on an ATR? Sorry, only "real airplane" I have any real time are various King Airs. I recall very clearly, at least on KA the rudder moving automatically more or less. Sure, in order to maintain perfection and achieve maximum rate of climb available, you had to finesse it a bit more and yes, about 5 degrees of bank helped a ton with the rate of climb. Don't most large commuter turbo pops have auto rudder? Quote
Andy95W Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 Yaw damper, yes, which is kind of a weak auto-rudder. After an engine failure, you will have to manually input rudder, apply rudder trim, then the yaw damper is able to keep up with the demand. Quote
AndyFromCB Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 Yaw damper ... It's not the same ... You better have your seat pulled up, so you can reach full rudder before your leg is fully extended. And you better step on that pedal. My personal take: Put in a bunch of rudder, then take out what you don't need. No hurry to rotate either. Nice and easy ... Did lots of sim V1cuts, over the years, but in the real airplanes, BE-58s, BE-C90A, BA-41, and DO-328 (Prop version) ... After level off and a power reduction, then trim it with rudder trim, to reduce the force needed to keep trimmed ... or your leg muscles will eventually wear out ... Dave, I didn't mean yaw damper. I mean real "auto" rudder. A KA200 or KA350 will actually kick the rudder for you in the direction of good engine. Not all that's needed but more than enough to stay upright..I was just wondering whether ATR or DO-328 for example have a similar system: From KA350 manual: A rudder boost system pneumatically positions the rudder to compensate for asymmetric engine power differences. With the RUDDER BOOST switch in ON, the BLEED AIR VALVES switches in OPEN or ENVIR OFF, and engine bleed air avail- able, the rudder boost system is active. If engine power difference increases (i.e., failed engine), a dif- ferential pressure switch (P) moves toward the low pressure side. Once pressure differential reaches approximately 60 ±4 PSI, the switch opens the opposite side’s shutoff valve. The shutoff valve then supplies bleed air to the rudder servo to drive the rudder toward the engine producing more power. With the BLEED AIR VALVE switch(es) in INST & ENVIR OFF the rudder boost relay interrupts pressure differential switch power supply to disengage the rudder boost system. Quote
AndyFromCB Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 Oh ... Ok. Never knew? Nice safety feature ... no auto rudder in ATR or most twins that I know ... Yeap, My favorite twin, KA350 with ProLine 21 and optional voice radar altimeter. If I ever make some real money, it will be my last airplane. It takes real hard work to kill youself in it. Spend a lot of hours in that airplane working various little hellholes in the midwest in the early 2000's. It never let us down. Not once. It would go completely problem free between 200 hour inspections. Quote
AndyFromCB Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 You better step on it. The correct pedal. A pretty good amount. Then you can slow down. And later you will have to trim it ... or your leg will wear out ... In the Jetstreams especially, we would comment to each other after our checkrides and the check airman was gone ... that you should just completely floor (push to the stop) the pedal on the good engine side, then take-out what you didn't need ... Thanks for the info. I just always wondered why such a simple system isn't on other aircraft. I should go look at the systems page and see whether it's connected to squat or gear switch. I can see it giving quite a wild ride on the ground before V1. Quote
jetdriven Posted February 7, 2015 Report Posted February 7, 2015 Rudder boost in King airs uses P3 bleed air from both sides directed to a shuttle valve. IF one engine quits, the bleed air on one side diminishes and the rudder boost is actuated. It isn't enough to do the job but it is perhaps 3/4 of what's is required. In the 747-200 you would do a 3-engine missed and at 1000', lose the other engine on the failed side. 2-engine Vmca was 197 knots. It's different than small airplane Vmca because that was right near stall speed. It's not the Vmc speed that kills you its the one wing stallng 3 knots less than that that delivers the final blow. You were usually below 197 KIAS so you did floor the rudder pedal, put the nose down, reduce thrust to maintain heading, then clean up and go like hell to get to 197 knots, because you were dead below it. It's a wierd feeling steering the airplane with the left side throttles. Quote
frcabot Posted February 7, 2015 Report Posted February 7, 2015 Someone here has a serious hard on for King Airs. Quote
AndyFromCB Posted February 7, 2015 Report Posted February 7, 2015 Rudder boost in King airs uses P3 bleed air from both sides directed to a shuttle valve. IF one engine quits, the bleed air on one side diminishes and the rudder boost is actuated. It isn't enough to do the job but it is perhaps 3/4 of what's is required. In the 747-200 you would do a 3-engine missed and at 1000', lose the other engine on the failed side. 2-engine Vmca was 197 knots. It's different than small airplane Vmca because that was right near stall speed. It's not the Vmc speed that kills you its the one wing stallng 3 knots less than that that delivers the final blow. You were usually below 197 KIAS so you did floor the rudder pedal, put the nose down, reduce thrust to maintain heading, then clean up and go like hell to get to 197 knots, because you were dead below it. It's a wierd feeling steering the airplane with the left side throttles. It's definitely enough to get your attention, I think it's about 50% of the required weight/pressure Some here has a serious hard on for King Airs. There is not other airplane like the KA350. Full fuel useful of 1600b, 1600nm range, 300knots, FL350 ceiling, 100gph, single engine rate of climb close to 900fpm. Let's not forget that any weekend warrior can fly it and fly it safely. Well, not any, but it's not hard. Much easier than any piston twin. Only problem is $300K a year to run it 150 hours plus capital costs. 3 times what it costs to run a TBM. Quote
Hank Posted February 7, 2015 Report Posted February 7, 2015 "100 gallons per hour"!!!! You say that so calmly . . . Plus annual, maintenance and repair, to say nothing of the giant hangar it requires. Quote
AndyFromCB Posted February 7, 2015 Report Posted February 7, 2015 "100 gallons per hour"!!!! You say that so calmly . . . Plus annual, maintenance and repair, to say nothing of the giant hangar it requires. To quote Ferris Bueller, "If you've got the means, I highly recommend it". I don't have the means currently, but it's my dream machine. Spent 4 years bumming around in one when I was a part of larger company. Now I have to rough it in my beat up Bravo. Quote
Guitarmaster Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 Its all about AOA. If you don't demand what the wing can't give, you'll be just fine. Quote
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