triple8s Posted February 22, 2014 Report Posted February 22, 2014 I saw an M20 S and it's for sale has the 310 STC, of course the seller is like it's better than an O but most Ovations seem o be priced a little higher than the Eagle. What's the difference? Quote
AndyFromCB Posted February 22, 2014 Report Posted February 22, 2014 Eagle all the way. It will be lighter, much lighter, I've seen them with useful loads pushing 1150lb because of cheaper/lighter carpets, fabrics and much less sound proofing. Also, S-TEC 30 is bullet proof vs a king autopilot that will on average run about 2K per year to maintain if you add it all up. Quote
carusoam Posted February 22, 2014 Report Posted February 22, 2014 A bunch of options that would need to be considered... The Eagle came with very few. The Os came with most. Many Eagles have been upgraded. Many Os got old and may need some upgrades. But, everybody is different. What works for one may not work for another... When considering the Eagle, look for one upgraded close to O3 status... The 310hp, (n) cyllinders, Top Prop, and 100gallon tanks are worth considering. The SE version with electric rudder trim is the cat's meow! The only thing not on the list were O2 & AC. Best regards, -a- Somebody (Astel) is going to be dissapointed... My O's AP (KAP150) is coming up on 20 years old. Not one issue. Settable climb / descent rates, alt hold, follows VOR, GPS, ILS the whole ball of wax. $2k X 20 years = $40 k in savings... Enough savings to upgrade To a factory reman 310 HP engine! I felt the 180 HP engine was in need of replacement by a 310 HP one, because it gets off the ground in under 1000 ft. UL= 1030 LBs Long bodies with less than 180 HP are doggggggggy in comparison. 1 Quote
Cruiser Posted February 22, 2014 Report Posted February 22, 2014 Eagles and Ovations are identical airframes. The difference is all in the options. After ten or fifteen years with upgrades it may be difficult to tell the difference except for the dataplate. Currently there are only 59 M20S Eagles listed in the FAA registry. There were only 65 total produced by the factory 1999, 2000 and 2001 Quote
carusoam Posted February 22, 2014 Report Posted February 22, 2014 The name plate is pretty powerful. The O can't be Acclaim powered. There is some magic in the type S. If you have deeper dreams... 310hp, at alt, would be cooler, no? -a- Quote
AndyFromCB Posted February 22, 2014 Report Posted February 22, 2014 A bunch of options that would need to be considered... The Eagle came with very few. The Os came with most. Many Eagles have been upgraded. Many Os got old and may need some upgrades. But, everybody is different. What works for one may not work for another... When considering the Eagle, look for one upgraded close to O3 status... The 310hp, (n) cyllinders, Top Prop, and 100gallon tanks are worth considering. The SE version with electric rudder trim is the cat's meow! The only thing not on the list were O2 & AC. Best regards, -a- Somebody (Astel) is going to be dissapointed... My O's AP (KAP150) is coming up on 20 years old. Not one issue. Settable climb / descent rates, alt hold, follows VOR, GPS, ILS the whole ball of wax. $2k X 20 years = $40 k in savings... Enough savings to upgrade To a factory reman 310 HP engine! I felt the 180 HP engine was in need of replacement by a 310 HP one, because it gets off the ground in under 1000 ft. UL= 1030 LBs Long bodies with less than 180 HP are doggggggggy in comparison. WAAS, color graphics on HD screens with GPSS were not invented in time for the older Long Bodies. carusoam, You're right, it just depends. Looking over the logbooks on my Bravo and the number of times I've repaired the autopilot/gyro components while owing the aircraft, maybe 2K a year was excessive, but damn, I myself spent close to 8K overhauling gyros, computer and a single servo. The prior owners spend probably twice as much. Total of 3 KI256 overhauls in 3600 hours, 3 HSI overhauls, 6 servo overhauls, 1 computer overhaul. My Arrow on the other hand flew flawlessly with the S-TEC 30 for last 3 owners without an issue. Don't get me wrong, when the KFC150 works, it's a dream. 30 seconds of hand flying per flight, then just twisting knobs, but when it starts to go, it gets expensive quickly. And then there are later Ovations with the KFC225 autopilot. Amazing piece of equipment when it works but read this: http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/kfc225/ The pinnacle of king/honeywell autopilot design was KFC200. Everything after that, including Honeywell Apex system in PC12/47NG seems to have been designed by 14 year olds with a solder kit. I've flown a lot lately as a passenger in a copilot seat of PC12 and it's a nightmare of a system. Give me a a 1981 PC/XT with a CGA card and MSDOS and I could create a friendlier system with a keyboard. It's almost useless for real IFR. a GNS430 is a dream to operate vs the Apex. Quote
harrispa Posted February 22, 2014 Report Posted February 22, 2014 My 2001 Eagle was one of the last ones built and has most of the Ovation options. Built in O2, dual 430's, Stormscope. It has the Stec 30 with alt hold. Electric Trim rudder and elevator. The airframes are the same, including the fuel tanks, the Eagle just has a long standpipe to indicate where 75 Gallons is "considered full". you can put in the entire 100 gal if you are patient. The engine is the same as the O1,O2, and O3, the difference is the STC paperwork along with a Hartzell Prop to make the Eagle legal for 280 or 310 HP. If you normally cruise at 2400rpm, the speeds would be close to the same for any of the models. Obviously, The 310 hp has better takeoff and climb. I love my Eagle, but in my opinion, Mooney made a mistake by making it a different model. If they wanted to sell a less expensive Ovation, they should have done so without all the paperwork required for the M20S Paul Quote
skyking1 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Posted February 22, 2014 My screaming eagle is great! I do miss the rudder trim but 198 kts at 10,000 makes up for a lot ! Quote
skyking1 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Posted February 23, 2014 It is. I had to take a picture 1 Quote
carusoam Posted February 23, 2014 Report Posted February 23, 2014 And post it, too! Nothing cooler than Mooneys going fast... Share with your friends, -a- Quote
aviatoreb Posted February 23, 2014 Report Posted February 23, 2014 My screaming eagle is great! I do miss the rudder trim but 198 kts at 10,000 makes up for a lot ! Beauty, what was the engine setting, parameters and fuel flow? 1 Quote
carusoam Posted February 23, 2014 Report Posted February 23, 2014 SOP: Set all knobs to Sceamin' Picture of the requisite pilot's smile that goes with seeing that number is mandatory! Best regards, -a- 2 Quote
carusoam Posted February 23, 2014 Report Posted February 23, 2014 http://mooneyspace.com/page/index.html Picture is in the gallery...! -a- 1 Quote
Cris Posted February 23, 2014 Report Posted February 23, 2014 Eagles and Ovations are identical airframes. The difference is all in the options. After ten or fifteen years with upgrades it may be difficult to tell the difference except for the dataplate. Currently there are only 59 M20S Eagles listed in the FAA registry. There were only 65 total produced by the factory 1999, 2000 and 2001 back in the day Mooney produced the "Lean Machine" a 1987 or thereabouts M20J ie which was a stripped down 201 with lesser autopilot interior etc marketed to flight schools but today there is virtually no differance in price due to upgrades etc. similar to where many Eagles/Ovations are today but you are more likely to find an Eagle with the 310 STC than an Ovation of similar years that is because the upgrade for the Eagle was substantial ie higher gross wt's, speeds, and performance while less on the Ovation think 01/2 vs 03 "And....Eagle all the way. It will be lighter, much lighter, I've seen them with useful loads pushing 1150lb because of cheaper/lighter carpets, fabrics and much less sound proofing. Also, S-TEC 30 is bullet proof" Again the typical Eagle even with upgrades will have great useful load. Mine is 1122 lbs. You won't find many Ovations like that. I took three folks on a flight yesterday and me plus 70 gals of fuel and baggage. That gives you five hours of flight plus reserves LOP. With simpler systems one has less maintenance cost. In three years of flight I have had no repairs other than the typical initial purchase squalks, annuals, and oil changes. It doesn't get any better than that. 1 Quote
Txbyker Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 It is. I had to take a pictureThat's great performance. I don't think I have ever seen 180+ on my GX. Quote
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