Leaking fuel injectors

[aaronk25]

So just to bump this thread and to offer a update, the fuel staining persists at wot and when airspeed indicates higher than 130ias so basically when down low.

I did some climbs at 2500rpm, WOT and 105kts and the interesting thing is let say I leveled off and MP was indicating 25" when I let the IAS spool up to 140kts or so my jpi 830 shows 25.6" so even though the ram air is deleted I'm getting a ram air effect though the Challenger/k&n air filter, a rise of .6" just from higher indicates air speed.

I hate to say it but I ordered a brackett foam air filter to see if it will add some restriction so I can cruise WOT and have a lower pressure in the intake than ambient.

I wonder if the deep pletes in the challenger air filter is driving air down into the intake or at least that's my theory. If I back off the throttle .5" fuel leak stops but the turblance from the cocked throttle screws up my GAMI spread .

[Shadrach]

How are you seeing the fuel leak while in the left seat at 140KIAS?  Down low I get up to 1.25" increase from opening the Ram air (I doubt that even that is more than ambient, but perhaps slightly), still no staining. So in my mind the question is, what has changed to make you Mooney a "pisser"...  Was the Challenger AF installed before the leak started? If you're purchasing a Bracket filter, what was there pre-challenger?  If the installation of the GAMIs is the change that precipitated the leak, then my bet is on the injectors being the issue... Choking your engine ever so slightly may help, but that does not mean that there is not another solution...

[aaronk25]

How are you seeing the fuel leak while in the left seat at 140KIAS?  Down low I get up to 1.25" increase from opening the Ram air (I doubt that even that is more than ambient, but perhaps slightly), still no staining. So in my mind the question is, what has changed to make you Mooney a "pisser"...  Was the Challenger AF installed before the leak started? If you're purchasing a Bracket filter, what was there pre-challenger?  If the installation of the GAMIs is the change that precipitated the leak, then my bet is on the injectors being the issue... Choking your engine ever so slightly may help, but that does not mean that there is not another solution...

 

I agree with your comments.  I can't really identify when it started other than I Replaced the old challenger filter with a new one as it was showing some wear.  As the pletes were folded over from wear, rain and prop blast ect.  So I think it was more restrictive.  I also had ram air about 2 years ago and with it open I didn't have any fuel staining, but I wonder if the way the filter is positioned relative to the incoming air combined with the pletes upright on the new filter it might be stuffing more air down the intake than the ram air small round hole previously did?  I don't know it doesn't make sense to me either.

I wonder if a foam filter with a flat front will make a difference.  

 

I also may try putting my stock injectors back in to see if it works.  

[N201MKTurbo]

There won't be any difference between running WOT with the Bracket air filter or just throttling back a bit with the current air filter. Save your money.

 

Just pretend you have a turbo engine. I have to set my MP to about 3/4 throttle every time to limit my MP.

[aaronk25]

So tomorrow's the big day. I just finished reinstalling my stock injectors and we're going to fly in AM to see if it leaks fuel at WOT. Shadrach been a big help, (thanks for the phone call).

We think the GAMI injectors might have not been manufactured correctly as fuel going though the injector creates a venturi effect and should further more create enough low pressure by itself to pull air in though the bleed hole instead of pushing fuel out.

If it doesn't leak, I'll have GAMI send a new set of nozzles.

Mooney space is a great resource and the people that participate are great (some better comedians than mechanics). But entertainment is great!

201er, mike glad you've been the target and not me!

[aaronk25]

Fuel issue solved. The stock injectors don't leak! I'll be on phone with GAMI Monday. There good guys I know they will stand behind the product.

[carusoam]

That's an interesting turn in the story...

Best regards,

-a-

[MB65E]

Intresting. As for operation, a clean brackett filter on an E should be around 1.0 rise in mp with the ram air activated . Also, feathering the throttle back slowly until the decrease in MP is ever so slightly noticed. Then set slowly increase the throttle at the high end of the MP where you just saw it move. Most of the time that's worth at least a gallon per hour savings in fuel.

Funny the old adage of pulling it back till it stumbles and increasing till smooth, is usually a lean of peak condition anyway. Modern devices tend to confirm what's we have all been doing for years.

Fly safe,

Matt

[aaronk25]

For what it's worth I didn't install the brackett air filter as I'm going to be sending it back, now that the problems been identified.

The biggest issue I have with backing off the throttle is my the "GAMI spread" goes from .1-.2gph to .5-.7 gph. #2 is the first to peak at WOT and backed off 1/2 inch #4 peaks first which I believe is from the uneven air flow resulting from turbulence created in the manifold by the cocked throttle plate.

Also another interesting turn is the vibration I was experiencing at high mp low rpm such as 26" wot and 2200rpm is now gone. The new prop and faulty GAMI injectors were installed at the same time so I always assumed the vibration was a torsional twisting or resonating of 4 cylinders and 2 blades with this specific prop but given that the vibration is gone it has me scratching my head a bit as a bleed hole that doesn't introduce air into the injector (because fuel was pouring out it) would make for less than perfect combustion but why would that be the cause of The vibration.

It felt like when rpm were lowered a weight was added to the prop blade or like a washermachine slightly out of balance, but no engine miss. There was a thread that we discussed it in and we thought it to be torsional vibration.

[Shadrach]

Intresting. As for operation, a clean brackett filter on an E should be around 1.0 rise in mp with the ram air activated . Also, feathering the throttle back slowly until the decrease in MP is ever so slightly noticed. Then set slowly increase the throttle at the high end of the MP where you just saw it move. Most of the time that's worth at least a gallon per hour savings in fuel.

Funny the old adage of pulling it back till it stumbles and increasing till smooth, is usually a lean of peak condition anyway. Modern devices tend to confirm what's we have all been doing for years.

Fly safe,

Matt

I get a bit more than an inch down low, maybe it's time for a filter change.  With stock injectors, if I lean to rough and enrichen to smooth, that's going to put me around 110 LOP at high power. Much leaner than I want to be.

[aaronk25]

So a update to the thread. I installed the new GAMI injectors that GAMI sent me and the fuel leaking has stopped. Must have been something just a bit off in the manufacturing of injector.

Got to say John Paul at GAMI was great and never even hesitated to support his product. He never even asked when I bought them, he just said "I'll send you new ones right away".

Special thanks to (Ross) Shadrach for calling me and helping me work though the issues until we finally identified the suspect, which turned out to be guilty as charged.

Thanks,

Aaron

[Shadrach]

Glad you're all squared away!

[carusoam]

Mooney Space is powered by wonderful people!

Best regards,

-a-