N9201A

A detailed statement has been posted here on MS and on the Caravan website. In addition, every clinic attendee will participate in an interactive presentation on Threat and Error Management generally and the 2019 incident specifically. The interactive presentation will be done at OSH, we have already been invited to do it at several other aviation venues and departments. If you are interested, just come out and participate! Formation flying demands discipline and commitment. The Caravan organization continues to strive to set the standard among GA formation groups, and the takeaways from this experience have enhanced those efforts.

That paint’ll buff right out! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

EVERYONE is out of position all of the time...except Lead, of course. Lead is ALWAYS in position. Minimizing the time one is out of place, reducing the size of one’s “wobble box,” seeing your skills improve...these are just some of the reasons why those who form fly love it.

J

Greatest word ever: “Unable.” Anyone know if there is a controller forum? Right now maybe some guy is on it kvetching about “some Mooney pilot who wouldn’t accept a vector.” I saw I would be passing above some clouds that likely contained ice last year and picked up an IFR clearance. The controller immediately wanted to descend me into them because of his airspace restrictions. Um, no. They’re not always aware of all of our limitations, whether it’s equipment, pilot or what we are seeing out the windows. So sometimes we have to remind them. Glad you were assertive and it worked out for you.

Harley asked me to update her photo with a post-COVID photo showing other canines how to spend the coronazombiepocalypse with their human.

Some might say gaf

Some might say gaf

REALLY? PM me...I did and can provide coaching. Learn what is a “cabinet” (pronounced cab-nit) and a grinder (vocalized as “grine-duhr”). It’s a different world than most. Beautiful place though.

REALLY? PM me...I did and can provide coaching. Learn what is a “cabinet” (pronounced cab-nit) and a grinder (vocalized as “grine-duhr”). It’s a different world than most. Beautiful place though.

That’s nothing compared to New England. “Did you drive faah in your caaah, Brend-er?”

I have always thought “on holiday” sounds much better than “on vacation.” The first time I heard a guy on the Tube tell a girl “I’ll come ‘round and knock you up” I was a little taken aback tho.

I saw a video of an English medical expert explaining this quite succinctly. Basically by the time the “original” big has been passed through ten layers, it’s tens of thousands of people infected...from one original person who didn’t know they were carrying. Because there is no immunity - yet - and it’s SO contagious, it’s vastly different than the flu or cold, and comparisons are inapt. Wish I could find the source video again, it was something like “it’s not only about you, you selfish bastard” or the like.

Yes, if this was July we might be in better shape. Never thought I would be cheering for an early summer ....

In China, for years it has been the case that every Customs entry point screens every human walking by for body temperature, 100%, no exceptions. Obviously this only detects someone with an elevated temperature, but it’s a start. Here where, as of late, it’s become fashionable to blame aliens for everything, a friend returning from overseas just passed through KATL, the busiest airport we have. No body scan, no verbal screening, no nothing. My friend had been in a safe place, a country with better health care than we have, adequate testing, only 4 reported cases, and a disciplined, science-based approach. She is now self-quarantined and cannot believe the risk she was subjected to needlessly by our lack of any measures whatsoever to check thousands of people coming into the US’ busiest airport. I saw a piece by a doctor who explained that just one infected person could be the root cause of 30,000 infected people before showing any symptoms. How many unknowingly infected people went through KATL that day, or any day?

Every science-based thing I’ve seen says while we ALL may not be infected, this thing will be like the common cold in prevalence, so like 40% or more of human beings will get it eventually. That’s science. What I understand makes this different, though, is the lack of immunity (it’s “novel”), its transmissibility, and its lethality. These factors can be mitigated longer term by immunity (whether survival or vaccine) and, in the near term, preventing the spread. So no panic, just science. I’m not a scientist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night...no FoxNews tho, maybe that’s my problem.

This is easy to say when it isn’t one’s OWN life, or the life of a loved one, at stake. And we are VERY far from doing “everything we can,” many places are business as usual, from the videos we’ve seen of partying spring breakers and the like. Hospitals turning people away because of a lack of ICU beds won’t just impact COVID victims, it will affect ALL people who need that bed. We have fewer beds per person than Italy, much poorer health insurance, and much of the population is underserved by hospitals at all. People dying in large numbers because they can’t get care while millions more remain (justifiably) sheltered because they don’t want to risk a dean sentence from casual contact with a fact denier...that might have a GDP impact too. Fortunately each state will be able to make up its own mind, and we shall see whether science prevails...or whether the “suck it up cupcake” group powers through and saves the economy, as they seem intent on doing. We shall all see soon enough.

I’m glad it looks that way from the outside, from the inside it sure can sound quite “slam-dunky”!

This is a GREAT thread...Harley, aged 10 And I’m not advocating any one as “best” dog, ever...they’re dogs, they’re ALL perfect, like our children.

Everyone thinks this until it is their life, or the life of their loved one. Like it or not, American policymakers (and certainly the ones empowered now) don’t make decisions based on a risk utility analysis. That’s why we have illegal (federally) marijuana, the death penalty, poor prenatal but huge proportions of medical care spent on those who’ll die within a few months. And why dollars exceeding the gross domestic are spent each year in DC and state capitols on lobbyists... NOTE — I am NOT advocating a risk/utility analysis, others are I’m sure far more qualified (is Prof. Richard Epstein an MS-er?). But I’d note that the key is in the values placed on each factor in any equation, and there be the subjectivity!

THIS!! I read a lot of Collins, and when l began flying aircraft with hot props, hot plates and boots I started to diminish icing in my threat matrix. Boy, icing up in something with real known-ice capability reinforced to me how dangerous ice is, how quickly it can accumulate, and how easy it is to underestimate. It’s hard to read about people treating TKS in a piston as anything more than emergency equipment to help one’s odds escaping icing. There is a reason ATC and turbine pilots appreciate and take note of icing reports. Icing has killed people and it is no joke. Please stay conservative out there!

In terms of analysis and learning something, you’re definitely on the right track here. I suspect that when all is said and done, the factors contributing to this incident will be more than “gizmo X failure” or the omnipresent yet unsatisfying “pilot failed to maintain control in instrument meteorological conditions.” Not much learning to be had from the latter (or the former is one doesn’t have gizmo X). We all should scrupulously adhere to PAVE, IMSAFE, reasonable and unwavering personal minima, and maintain currency. But these are just what we need to be legal; maintaining proficiency requires more. And some days, we just have to acknowledge it’s better to divert, return to base or just remain in place. Better to airline back to get one’s bird than become an incident or fatality.

I didn’t read that anyone was offended by an informed, respectful analysis of facts. I did suggest refraining from sniping and—unjustifiably, based on the tape—criticizing participants who even now are likely wrestling with personally experiencing a fatal tragedy that claimed two lives. I’ve now learned that BeechTalk is better at not doing the latter, apparently. But hey, everyone should just be themselves...

I have not proposed any rules, and everyone has their own standards. My original post addressed a disparaging comment about a controller who demonstrated professionalism and calm trying to save two lives that ultimately were lost, and who will live with that outcome for the rest of their life. Criticism from us, however well-intentioned, is unhelpful and adds no value. That’s just my opinion, and you’re entitled to your own. I’ve watched people behave in ways I wouldn’t and I have done things others would not have done as well. Some have made thoughtful posts about sensitivity to survivors of actual people some of us may know who are now gone. Others may encourage us to critique them when they’re gone; presumably criticizing a live person is OK too. To each their own...you do you.

Hope you’re (1) never in that situation (2) with someone similarly “taught”...awk—ward!!