N9201A

Thanks for posting the video. It would appear that Gen. Yeager has the last word on any angle of attack controversy: "If you don't know what it is, you shouldn't be flyin'!!" Amen, General.

Won't restate earlier comment on "tone" because - like corpses and coffins - the guys who need it the most are the least aware of it. Am compelled to comment on Anthony's link between perfection and formation flying. l have yet to meet the perfect pilot (have met Mr. Hoover, and he is quick to point out his mistakes, read his book to see for yourself). But I can say formating has improved my flying. I bet most who've stuck with it do so at least in part because it improves theirs. And a common denominator in formation flying is humility. Out of position is out of position. Your system or beliefs don't matter, if you're sucked you're sucked. Fix it. No one has all the answers. But when you think you do, flying in proximity of equally dedicated aviators as committed as you are to being as good as they can be will cause you to rethink what you thought you "knew." The aerodynamics and physics underpinning this discussion are inarguable...yet there continues to be debate. Since nothing goes with a bonfire like more gasoline.... So, how about that global warming thing?

Exactly, this is what I was trying to express about five pages of posts ago: The common denominator? A pilot who doesn't understand the wing--cross controlling and pulling back to hold attitude because "too steep in the pattern = certain death!!" Bank isn't the enemy per se, neither is being less than 100 knots. But exceeding critical AoA is.

"But in the pattern you aren't trying to maintain level altitude, if you need make a tight turn, let the nose drop, then after level and on final, adjust for glide slope and speed." I don't know what you are doing. My original post was about using bank to scrub speed. That assumes maintaining altitude, which is why it scrubs speed. Someone wrote drag never changed; that's not true. Higher AoA = higher induced drag.

Read my posts. No "berating" anywhere. No "push" - things or people - either, unless promoting more understanding is berating. You clearly have some other agenda unknown to me, so I'm going to disengage. You've already figured everything out anyway, that's great for you. I will get back to trying to improve my understanding.

So there's no STC, then?

Look at the experts on that panel. And it looks like a competing solution was third. This is an impressive accomplishment. Hope he can commercialize it. Might save some lives.

Chuck, it's true a lot of content has been lost in the static of tone here. I am trying this forum to connect with other aviators who are continually trying to expand their personal envelopes. Having flown with you, I know you are one of those. I've ignored the unfortunate incivility which is not a monopoly of any one poster here. Perhaps others felt provoked? Or maybe there is some background of which I'm unaware. But cutting through the ego-driven BS, and what's more disturbing, is how reluctant some pilots seem to be to challenge what they "know" to be true...even when they can't explain why or how they "know" it. The fundamental premise I took away from the OP was that AoA is more useful than airspeed. It's irrelevant to anyone without an AoA indicator (of whom I am one), but could have provoked a great discussion about how our wings work...load factor, what a stall really is, why do we crash in the pattern.. Instead we've got posters whose airplanes "cannot stall" (wow-can l get that STC?!) and "always" do it one way no matter what and that way nothing bad will ever happen to them. Uh, OK...wonder if that is a common thread in every NTSB post-incident pilot interview - if the pilot survived. Fascinating...

I often open it on approach.

Increasing bank angle in level turn increases load, to maintain level must increase AoA, which increases induced drag. Slows plane unless power added.

"Leave door open for parrot"...that's funny, I don't know anything about birds but a dog wouldn't leave its owner. Would a parrot? Actually if the bird is in flight in the cabin, does it count towards gross weight?

Easy to stall at 100 knots in pattern, here are two ways: Load aircraft more than 1G. Overshoot, need a little more bank, hold top rudder, oops not too much bank is what that expert on MooneySpace said...stall/spin. Try it at altitude, your speed will decrease at idle very quickly with even unnoticeable cross-control in, and pilots watching runway aren't staring at ASI. There are some truly chilling videos illustrating this. Happens every year and it's preventable. As far as all of you angry people ... Can't explain that.

"How about never get slower than 100mph/knots (others/long body) until on final, and you will never stall,.." Uh, were this true no one would ever perish in the classic "base-to-final" cross-control stall ... yet we lose pilots every year to this preventable and foreseeable accident. Speed is not an inoculation against stalling ... understanding how our wings work goes a lot further to preventing such accidents than the "add five knots for Momma" and "five more for each kid" that is overwhelmingly the pilot practice you'll observe at your local airport on a given Sunday. Interesting techniques, Mike. I use bank angle/g load often to scrub off speed. I'm a big fan of slipping also. Too many pilots do not understand how these things interact and fly by rote as they were taught in a 172 in primary. They've suspended learning. It's good to have an exchange of these ideas. But before we start firing bullets, let's go out and try some different techniques. I'm always struck on how insistent some even long-time Mooney pilots can be that "can't takeoff/land without flaps" or "HAVE to go to 25 squared at 500/1000 feet" or whatever. Yes, it's true Bob Hoover didn't have an AoA ... but he also didn't accept rote learning passed along because "that's what I was taught." He went out and FLEW it. And then he shared what he learned. So we should all do the same. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Training, training, training...we overcome distractions by conditioning ourselves to not be distracted. Focusing on objective performance criteria will better equip pilots to handle situations varying from what the "expect." It also creates rote responses that are safe and ingrained, so one (hopefully) does the safe thing regardless of stimuli. How many stall/spins have we read about or seen occur because of the same issue? Pilots who always do what "looks about right" or what they "normally" do won't have a problem...until it's not working. Look and feel can trick you, as anyone who's wandered VFR into IMC can attest...if they made it out. Sure, there are limitations to any training (it's training) but that's not a reason not to do it. And if it serves its purpose, the limitations are irrelevant. As far as training limitations, I admit I could see out of the corner of my foggles on my instrument checkride, maybe just a little. Anyone know if the limitations statute has passed?

You're making my point for me. The focus should be on the numbers and performance not "look and feel" and "faster than usual." As far as end of runway coming, you did plan your abort point before commencing your takeoff roll, right? Obviously one cannot safely duplicate terrain proximity while at a safe altitude from it. But that's not what you're duplicating; it's the aircraft performance, which should be the focus...NOT the extraneous distractions that will cause/contribute to an accident that could've been avoided had the pilot stuck with the objective and ignored the subjective. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Too many of us do this for the first time in a long time when it is for real. Remember while you're distracted by mixture/EGTs etc on takeoff how critical speed control is. The climb performance lost from diverging from Vx/y can be startling. Next time you're at altitude, slow down and practice a climb out as if from a high DA situation. See what your airplane can actually do and what a difference speed variations make. Sloppy technique doesn't matter at SL and 1,000 fpm climb. But it will create problems at high DAs, especially with the stress of the ground not falling away as it usually does. You did plan your safe route out and around ground obstacles and/or back to the field at 100' all, right? Why crash trying to clear an obstacle when nearby terrain falls away or a heading change avoids it? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Visalia is not a Mooney-only event, and is organized by one of our fellow type groups. Anyone interested pm me. It's 21-23 October. Every newbie needs a safety pilot, so dumping a bunch of newbie Mooney pilots without lining up adequate Mooney safeties to fly with them would be poor form. So I will need to coordinate to ensure our newbies have safeties and Mooney pilots remain welcome at future events. I will be posting on the Caravan email and so if you're interested, please sign-up so you will get those emails. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Puddles, if you and JohnB work out some dates, lemme know and I will be happy to safety. Joker.

Click the highlighted text: "join the Mooney Caravan Forum" at the bottom of the page.

No badges unless/until you fly with us! But it'll be the most fun you've ever had with your airplane...

We did a mini-clinic in July in Chino. We fly all the time. If I had known you were interested, you'd have been invited. Sign up to be notified at the website and get on the email chain. There is a clinic in Visalia next month and Yuma happens every February. Last year we had 35 aircraft including warbirds and a racing Lancair! Start training yourself anytime. Read the Guide and watch the ground clinic video. All are online, open to the public. Then come out, grab a safety and get flying.

Hello all, I'm Larry. I've owned my J since 1998. I'm active in the Mooney Caravan's "Best Coast" wing. Our pilots are very active and from the entire spectrum of Mooney ownership. Sign up on mooneycaravan.com to stay up to speed. Come out and fly with us, home your skills and learn some new ones. Hope to see you sometime.

But if yours works for you...

Using your definition that would be true. I don't know you so I was using Merriam-Webster's and the common real estate, investment and airplane owners' one.