Shadrach

There are several components to this on a customer service level and all of them tripped my BS meter. Not communicating inspection findings to the customer upon engine disassembly is lousy customer service. Making decisions about how the engine will be reassembled without consulting the customer is not only lousy customer service, it’s underhanded. Good customer service would include an immediate discussion of the condition of the engine internals, questions about the customer’s goals for his mid-time power plant and then options for return to service. When I had my powerplant IRAN’d, the shop owner called me the same day the engine was disassembled to give me his appraisal of the engine internals. He said that the lifters had microscopic pitting and that they would very likely make it to TBO, but that replacing them now would be a trivial expense. We elected to replace. The cam and crank both looked beautiful with almost no visible wear. The cylinders all looked good save for one which showed some irregular heat patterns on the exhaust valve. We elected to send the cylinders out for IRAN. The shop owner did not make the determination on the repairability of the crank case, that was left up to the overhauler, Crankcase Services of Tulsa, Oklahoma. Had Crankcase Services found the cracked case half to be unrepairable, I suspect they would’ve sold me a serviceable unit and taken the serviceable half of my case as a partial core. As I said earlier, all of this work was performed for a very reasonable $4200. I realize this is 2010/2011 pricing but I had no sense that I was getting a screaming deal on the work that was performed. Only that everyone was being paid fairly for their portion of the work. What truly surprised me was the number of people who were shocked at how economical the repair had been, and how many of those folks would have elected to just have the engine overhauled at a cost of roughly 10X. That engine has been oil tight and in service for 13 years since. It is, by all accounts, one of the strongest IO360s I’ve ever flown behind. A couple of other things I would mention about the OPs situation. His crank and cam are serviceable. The line items in the invoice are for “repair” which comprises a range of possibilities that will include some but not necessarily all of the following - magnetic particle inspection, verification of dimensions, machine work and heat treating. Some parts may indeed not be serviceable. However, I find it hard to believe that the crank and cam are serviceable but the cylinders, accessory gears and fuel servo are all shot. so while I don’t have a personal dog in this fight, I do have some experience in having an IO360 IRAN’d and this situation still smells just a bit.

N1525T is an Ovation local to KFDK . It’s the only Mooney I saw listed in the line up. GAFlyOver4.4.pdf

Mine has been tight since I hung the engine in 2011. The leak from the case crack was obvious. Smoke from the top of the heat muff on shutdown. I only grew it like that twice before we diagnosed the crack.

That is a common area. Mine cracked on passenger side case half through the bolt boss that is just aft of the Alt/Gen mount area. Case was overhauled by Crankcase services in Tulsa. Cost of$840 including return shipping. I also replaced all the lifters.. All in cost in 2010 was $4200, I R&R’d the engine.

I think there is something fishy going on with in the shop. Are you dealing with the owner?

Agreed, but we are privy to the images of the paper estimates…unless the OP fabricated them, which seems unlikely.

Ask him if he paid more than factory overhaul price on each overhaul or received a frequent flier discount on the next few.

The fact that Brown makes it in white makes it an easy choice.

Quotes are for various levels of overhaul, not inspections. Removing and reinstalling an IO360 is ~20-25hr job for a competent mechanic (30% removal 70% install. I have both paid to have it done and I have done it personally. Removing cylinders and splitting the case of an IO360 is a 5-6 hour job. I know because I dropped my engine off at my builder mid morning to have the case sent out for overhaul and he called me before close of business that day with his assessment of the internals and to provide a tracking number for the case which was already crated and on its way to the overhauler. 45k for a prop inspection is ridiculous. The OPs shop charged 12k for the prop inspection (top of the invoice). The other 33k is in unauthorized maintenance. Professionals should be paid well for skilled work. They should be ridiculed for taking advantage of the of a customer’s vulnerability and ignorance. The fact that you have recently had the work performed does not mean that what you paid was reasonable.

According to who? Based on what? How many cases have you split? 45K is nowhere near "about right" for a prop strike inspection. Here are some posted field overhaul price lists from reputable overhaul shops. Gann Aviation -Factory new limits - $36,050 (good luck getting new cylinders) A&E Aviation - Overhaul with Serviceable Cylinders - $22,225 (Plano Tx) Corona Engines- Overhaul with Serviceable Cylinders - $31,500 (Corona, CA) Prices for field overhauls vary +/- 30% depending on options and region, but in no world does a prop strike inspection cost $45K.

It is "U" channel trim piece. There are several off the shelf products that will work. I do not recall the correct size. you should perhaps remove and measure a small piece to ensure you order the correct size. I think this company has been used by others: https://www.trimlok.com/catalog

The teardown and reassembly should fall under the inspection covered by the insurance company. It would take a monumental shift in the facts surrounding this situation for me to believe this is anything other than a shop strong arming a captive customer. It happens. Sometimes it happens to people who don't know it’s happening to them. I would make one polite attempt to give the shop an opportunity make this correct. If they failed, I would seek to sever ties with as little drama and acrimony as possible while trying to minimize the possibility of property damage/sabotage. Negotiating with terrorists rarely goes well.

Indeed, if the shop performs a field overhaul, it is going to cost almost $13,000 more than an factory overhaul exchange. No one in their right mind would pay that for a field overhaul...unless they we're made an offer they could not refuse.

I appreciate your push for a calm tone, and perhaps there is indeed more to this story. However, if this shop has initiated $10,500 of work without communicating with the owner, I question the notion that they are suddenly going to find their ethics and come to the table. This has all of the elements of a hostage negotiation. I don't think he should have a Lawyer contact them. I think he should have a lawyer help him use the proper channels to remove his property from the shop ASAP. The removal needs to take place with as little warning as possible and under supervision. I would sooner take a crate of parts to another shop than do business with someone that treated me this way.

Did the shop communicate in detail the issues with your crank, cam, cylinders, fuel servo, crank case, lifters, gears in the accessory case etc? I had my engine torn down for a case crack year ago. We had a very in depth discussion about the condition of the internals the same day that the case was split. Your description reads like the shop just elected to do a field overhaul without your consent or consultation. There are two side to every story. Did he not disclose any of this to you before beginning the work?

@kortopates does savvy take on new customers while they are in a dispute with a shop? @BS20E If it were me, I would contact a lawyer about the best method for retrieving my unassembled property immediately and with as little notice to the shop as possible. I don't know that this shop is being unscrupulous, but so many things stink about this. You're ostensibly being forced into a field overhaul that is more expensive than a factory overhaul exchange even with insurance paying for the teardown.

My Bull$hit detector is screaming. Cases can be overhauled and cracks repaired. Cylinders that were previously operating just fine don't just fail.

OK now I understand. This is a difficult situation. Unauthorized work always is. Where is the airframe located? where is the closest engine shop to your location? Insurance should have covered anything damaged by the prop strike. The invoice does not seem to differentiate between damage and wear items.

I don’t mean to offend, but this answer makes clear that this is an emotional decision rather than a logical one. It’s an inanimate object with the engine torn apart. That has nothing to do with what “you” need. it’s about the best course of action moving forward to minimize your financial pain. No one will be able to help with that if you do not provide details as to what’s going on with the engine.

Brilliant solution if not a bit bulky when deployed.

A Lycoming Factory Overhaul from AirPower is $43,830 so I’m guessing that $45,000 is a typo. $4500 is chump change to have an IRAN’d engine that will likely run 2000hrs + if well cared for. Need more details to give a meaningful analysis of your situation.

Sort of, but I did not really intellectualize it in that way. Years ago on a particularly windy/gusty day when winds were favoring 27, I asked tower if I could have 20. I don’t recall the exact numbers, but they were stupid…something like 280 27G38 (I’ll check my logs). I don’t recall if I ran out of rudder or just became uncomfortable with the varying bank angle needed to track the runway. I elected to transition from a slip to a crab, which was fairly extreme, but more comfortable than having to stand on the rudder while varying bank angle. I wish I could say that I transitioned from the crab into the perfect amount of slip for the flare. It was more of an align the nose with the runway and do whatever seemed necessary to facilitate an expeditious touchdown. Donk, donk, donk. Right main, nose, then left main. I wheelbarrowed slightly in my efforts to get the thing planted. Flaps up. Then a gust blew us into a skid. Awful sound of tire screeching and gear chattering under side load. I did not bend anything, but I would never intentionally land in conditions like that again. I’m a late bloomer in some ways. I was in my early 30s when I did this. I started flying plenty early enough to have gotten something this stupid out of the way in my 20s.

This is a more detailed description of the technique I mentioned earlier. I’ve never read Barry’s piece, but I think a lot of pilots stumble into this method with time.

Handsome fella!

It’s a gift that keeps on giving. It’s an old pic but Simon is still with us. He’s now fine with hanging out in his carrier. When he was young, his preferred spot was what you see in the pic. The “three toed sloth” grip on the yoke is just weird but he’s done it several times.