Mooney217RN

Need some help from the brain trust here at MS. I flew to drop off supplies yesterday about 200 miles from home. I went to turn on the O2, and the knob had no tension. It just spun around. Couldn't turn it on. The set screw in the knob is secure. This problem is part of the internal mechanism that turns the valve on/off. Normally, I would have the best MSC on the west coast take care of this. But these are not normal times - no rental cars, nobody willing to fly me back/forth so I can drop off and pick up the plane. So...any ideas? I was told that the pilot side panel had to be removed to see if the cable snapped or something else went awry. This seems like a ton of work. By the way, this was a sudden failure with no advance warning. It just happened for no apparent reason. So MS'ers - the challenge is on! Give me a hand if you can.

No FBO is going to take a loss on fuel sales. You're in a different market than we are, where the wholesale price of the fuel is well above $3.50 still.

As an owner of multiple FBO's, I decided I would weigh in on this and explain some of the factual reasons why 100LL hasn't dropped as precipitously as oil. First & foremost, the decline in oil has been very fast, over a 2 week timeframe. Oil is a feedstock for fuel. The fuel we are using now was refined weeks ago, before oil declined precipitously. Compounding matters, 100LL is a boutique fuel. Very little of it is refined, very little consumed in the big scheme of things. There is also a transportation issue with 100LL - it is transported exclusively by truck to the airport. In some cases, it is moved from refineries to distribution points via rail car, but it is moved from those rail cars to the airport via truck. This is in contrast to JetA, Diesel & gasoline, all of which are transported via pipeline to distribution points around the nation. The cost to move a load of 100LL is about 20 cents per gallon. There are also very steep state and federal excise taxes on 100LL AND flow fees that you pay based on the airport where you purchase it. In California, the excise taxes alone are around 40 cents per gallon for state & federal combined. That doesn't include any airport imposed flow fee. Finally, the fuel in the tanks of most FBO's was purchased well before prices started to drop. So there you have it, no joy for those of us who use 100LL. For what it's worth, we price our 100LL to be the lowest in the state by design, to encourage people to fly in. MooneySpace discourages promotion, so I cannot tell you which location we do this at, but you can look on AirNav and might figure it out. Next week when we take our next delivery will be in the $3.xx range, and it will be lower than any airport within our state.

a fool and his Mooney are soon parted.

I fly an Ovation 3 regularly. It is heavier than other Mooney aircraft that you may be familiar with. As such, you're going to go through brakes & tires quicker. I had to replace brakes at around 300 hours and one tire at that time. The prior owner of my O3 replaced the tires before I owned it. Fuel flow - 16-17 gph in cruise, depending on altitude and OAT. Want less, go higher.

Update - heard from the shop, there's a minimum 2 month lead time on the parts order from Mooney factory. Why does it need to be new? It wears from use. So if you don't use new, you're going to have to replace it sooner next go around as it will already be worn down and the play in the linkage will be greater than if it were new.

I have the Ovation 3. I fly it in cruise at full manifold pressure, 2450 RPM. Going any more on the RPM gives you nothing in the way of speed increase. It just tosses fuel out the exhaust as far as I am concerned. I generally fly around 10,000' MSL.

Probably a small component of why there are few young folks desiring to get into aviation, but there is another underlying current. We live in a world today where adventure is almost unheard of, exploration is accomplished upon a phone or tablet, and people are overly concerned to the point of being outright conservative towards activities. Think of your childhood - no seatbelts, no helmets, ride your bike anywhere you so desired to go, walk to school, see the world. Today's kids don't live in that environment. Even worse, younger generations have practically abandoned independence. They are risk adverse. That in and of itself really defines where we're at today and why younger folks don't have that burning desire to learn to fly.

New tail link. Can't be salvage. Needs to be new.

So I found out today that I need some parts from the factory IAW my annual inspection. Any clue if that will come together considering the situation with the factory being somewhat shuttered? The shop was uncertain.

Tanner- I owned a '74 E Model for 20 years. I loved that airplane. It had it's quirks though. Things to look for - fuel leaks; have the tanks been re-sealed? Prop - has it been replaced in accordance with the Hartzell A.D. on the hub? Fuel selector valve - has it been overhauled and/or replaced; it tends to leak out the sump drain, drip, drip, drip. Corrosion is an obvious look for that age of an aircraft. Who has been maintaining it? Any damage history? Is the engine an IO-360A1A or has it been upgraded to the IO-360A3B6, the latter of which is a better engine. Fuel sender gaskets - are they leaking? Those are some basic items that you'll want to look into.

Not so certain about that. I flew an SR22 yesterday, great ride. But I also flew my Ovation yesterday, an even better ride. Mooney could make more use of composites, but what is the benefit of an all composite airframe versus a steel & aluminum airframe? The only thing I see is that the composite aircraft absorb turbulence better. Repairing a composite airframe is a real challenge.

I've been through a few factory closures in my 20+ years of Mooney ownership. If anything, the airplanes are a better buy as a result, and the parts are more often than not manufactured by others. Mooneys sell themselves. They are very stable aircraft, highly efficient and well made. In my opinion, they are the biggest bang for the buck in the piston single market. They have stood the test of time over generations. Can't say that about a lot of aircraft manufacturers. I fly my Mooney multiple times per week, over some of the most inhospitable terrain in the country. My life depends on that airplane, and it delivers, thankfully. I wouldn't let the factory being shut down serve as an impediment to acquiring a used Mooney.

I sold my E Model about 15 months ago +/- Vref was pretty close to reality. It overvalued my LoPresti Speed mod, but I still ended up with $100,000 for the plane. i think it’s more a supply & demand thing in addition to age, time and condition. There’s a lot of J Models out there, that depresses the price. Not a lot of Encores available nor manufactured, people end up paying a premium for those. Lots of Ovations and Bravos out there, those birds have suppressed pricing as a result.

Vance- I am no expert, but I ran my IO-360 in my E Model to TBO with little issue. Let me give you a couple of pointers from experience. First off, change your oil & filter every 25 hours. It is the cheapest insurance you can buy for your engine. Second, if you can find any out there, do an oil change and use Exxon Elite 20/50. It is no longer in production, but there is some out there. I stocked up on a dozen cases that I have in my hangar, so I bet someone out there has some besides me. I am not familiar with your engine, although I have flown the 231. I now have an IO-550G in my Ovation. You stated that "...the tail pipe is not oily. There is a powdery trail on the belly behind the tail pipe.". that's good. You want a light gray/tan powdery trail. that means you're leaning it out to the correct EGT. Oil consumption is normal. A quart in 25 hours is very normal. If you're adding 3 quarts or more in 25 hours, you have a problem. My engines have always consumed more oil at higher ambient temps than at lower ambient temps, in other words summer versus winter.

Your instructor taught you well. A good website you need for flying around here - https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/rev/remotedata/screst.php Pick your location, get the winds in near real time. I have been a high country aviator my entire life, and you don't want to deal with mountain wave, rotor winds and the local turbulence no matter how accustomed you are to it. Add in density altitude, updrafts, downdrafts and wind shear, and you're just asking for trouble. People don't realize that the east slope of the Sierra Nevada range is one of the most turbulent, windy and challenging areas to fly in around the nation. Use extreme caution around here.

In early June of 2018, flying my new Ovation back from the east coast, we were seeing 45 kts + off the nose heading westbound from D.C. to the Nebraska/Wyoming border. That took some time off the trip. I have seen 50 kts off the tail locally. WARNING - The worst winds I ever experienced were in advance of a dry cold front, which around my neck of the woods produce the worst turbulence too. I was cruising along with a solid 30-35 kt tailwind, smooth. Reached Donner Summit in my E Model, and the plane rolled so severely to the left that I thought the plane was going to invert on me. Right foot jammed the rudder and righted the aircraft, then severe turbulence into TRK. Damage to the aircraft from the turbulence. I am surprised I landed it safely. The underside of the aircraft had a ripple in the skin aft of the cowling the size of my hand. Don't mess with severe winds, these planes weren't designed for it.

Adverseyaw, one of the things you can do if you so desire to juice some more power out of that beautiful bird is a tuned exhaust. I did that on my E Model many years ago, and with no regrets whatsoever. A fantastic mod. You really see the difference at altitude, and I am based at a high altitude airfield. The reason I did the tuned exhaust was because my exhaust system needed to be replaced; I kept repairing it. Once I installed the tuned exhaust, I never had a single problem with it over a couple thousand hours and the engine ran much better. Just a thought for you long term.

Beautiful airplane. Congratulations on the purchase! May you have thousands of hours of happy flight time ahead of you

Phil nailed it - the Cirrus buyer isn't an advanced pilot. A neighbor of mine bought a brand new SR-22 turbo this past summer. A year earlier, I got a near new Ovation 3. We've flown together, I have 25+ hours in the Cirrus line, all in the SR-22's. Nice plane. Gear welded down and locked. No prop control. Fully automated. My neighbor takes off, engages the auto-pilot and never touches the controls. Last month, she got stranded. I took the Ovation to pick her up. A one hour flight returning to our home airport, I never once engaged the auto-pilot. She looked at the G1000 and noticed our speed over ground, fuel burn, and comfort. She was blown away. She also realized that I was "hand flying" the airplane. Cirrus pilots let Hal drive. Cirrus gets people into airplanes by selling a culture. Mooney sells the highest performance piston single ever manufactured. You can transition into a Cirrus from a C172 or C182. I can't imagine a low time pilot coming out of a Cessna and stepping into an Ovation or Acclaim. The transition may be the biggest difference between the two product lines, spare the obvious performance of the Mooney absolutely smoking any SR-22. Two totally different product lines. If you don't appreciate the Mooney, buy a Cirrus.

Mooneys are short coupled. As a result, it is more difficult, consider it an art form, to keep the nosewheel from dropping. I can do it, and usually do, but it comes with years of practice and lots of landings. To this day, the nose still drops down on landing. Every landing is unique, like a fingerprint, no two are the same. Keep that in mind and do the best you can. Practice makes perfect.

Since you're in Santa Cruz, give Top Gun a call in Stockton. I would highly recommend them, been taking my Mooney to them for 20+ years. I have an Ovation 3, so perhaps a different bird than what you're looking at. You can count on probably $2,500 - 4,000 +/-. I had some oddball items last annual that required replacement, one tire, the ELT and the airbags, so I wouldn't use mine this past year as a gauge. Here's the problem you'll face - the prior owner may or may not have conducted preventative maintenance. If the aircraft has been well maintained, you'll have few surprises. If the aircraft has not been MSC maintained, good luck.

It’s not uncommon to have the WX conditions reported and then have an ancillary message indicating the runway is closed. I live in major snow country, all the airports around here do that. Spare RNO, they all suck at snow removal. In fact one of the Area airports no longer has a functioning AWOS, so they can’t make the announcement that the runway is closed due to snow.

Truly a sad testament in an economy like we're experiencing, probably the best economic environment in post-war history. This goes right back to what I have consistently said - Mooney's marketing is for all intensive purposes absent. Further, Mooney cannot continue on without producing an entry level product to introduce people to the product line. You cannot sell the top of the line product with no marketing, and Mooney has been guilty of this for years. As an owner of two Mooney aircraft, I am disappointed, but not surprised. I know a few people who were working at the factory, it's a tough day for them.