Parker_Woodruff

Don't give the people on this board any ideas. Finding coverage for a pilot of your experience isn't the problem. Finding quality coverage is... ...usually one of the companies with hail damage limits, it seems.

Yes, more to come.

I'll be there briefly as we'll be on vacation nearby

It looks like they're also going after a product liability judgment. I wonder how much is a fishing expedition. https://www.yahoo.com/news/family-sues-plane-company-fatal-035501952.html

It's doesn't matter if this was pilot error or not. What matters was if the policyholder was in compliance of the terms of the policy (and AIG's policy doesn't really have a bunch of pitfalls) for it to be a valid liability claim. Whatever the homeowner's policy says (if the homeowner has one) doesn't matter at all as to whether coverage is established for the policyholder. And a homeowner's policy doesn't determine how much AIG should pay out if there is a valid claim.

I'll be there!

I don't know how these numbers were calculated, but the Cessna 210 and Cessna twins most certainly are up there. Gear ups aren't even NTSB reportable in most instances...

Generally speaking, an agency that makes more commission than the baseline commission isn't doing a markup (the pie doesn't get bigger or cost more if one agency gets 18% when the baseline commission might be 15%). A lot of the bigger agencies make a higher commission percentage. I've always wished that higher commissions were awarded for agents bringing a segment of clients with lower loss ratios rather than what seems like earning a higher percentage by volume.

First, if that's $1MM Smooth, the pricing is about right. Do you have a passenger bodily injury liability sublimit? You might not be getting many quotes for your business if you're outside the typical underwriting parameters for a make and model (very low hull value). Some companies simply won't quote if the hull is too low by comparison to other aircraft of the same year/make/model. I wonder if there's a company that might insure you for about the same price or less with a $60-80K hull? Have your broker shop it at the amount it would take for you to replace it it one of like kind and quality...I bet there will be better options available...

I've been able to quote liability only through Global for my entire agent career but I suspect they might be allowing a greater age range than previously indicated. I'll check with an underwriter there. Global has been a consistent underwriting company as long as the pilots are "in" before a certain age. Global is my most common carrier when an aircraft owner wants liability only.

Mike Twenty Papa/Tango

Some policies actually restrict the northern Latitudes of Canada. Guarantee you there are many more that would try crossing the oceans if it wasn't excluded than those who will go way north into Canada.

Just remember that you might see something you don't like in the boilerplate policy language and then it gets changed to your liking by endorsement. Or, the other way around. It's probably best to read the standard policy first, then the endorsements. But sometimes the endorsements come before the standard policy.

@PineconeProfessional liability insurance is becoming a pretty big deal in aviation, especially as airframes age. There are lots of prebuys where existing structural issues are supposedly missed and then found on the next service or annual inspection. But an occurrence has not happened...so a typical general liability policy will not respond.

You had it right in your policy quote above. Pilots flying for their personal use are insureds for liability, but not for aircraft physical damage. Named Pilots are afforded a Waiver of Subrogation in your policy by endorsement.

I would take nothing for granted unless it's in writing because you are providing aviation services which can carve out coverages otherwise afforded to non-owners.

Thanks for the tag. My agency typically is not very well set up to do this but I know agents who are better equipped for this and happy to send recommendations via PM. However, for those taking notes, we can many times aircraft owners get insurance as soon as they get into Canadian Airspace when moving their N-registered aircraft to the USA from Europe.

Good question. My gut says per accident the insurance companies going after an operator on the open pilot clause of a personal aircraft policy would be less likely, but I can't confirm. I'm inclined to agree with your agent, but skewing the perception could be the frequency of flight school losses. All of the above said, there are, *generally speaking*, more protections in a personal aircraft policy for a non-owner operator than there are on a flight school's commercial policy. Many times the non-owner is an insured for liability coverages but just has no protection from recourse for physical damage coverages.

Very insurable - send me a message

No - I missed the renewal email when our second girl was born in Sept. When I checked in with them shortly after the deadline, my previous spot had been sold and there weren’t any compelling booth locations remaining. Hopefully back next year.

If instrument rated, 500+ total time, Cirrus are probably somewhere in between a Cessna 182 and a Mooney in rate. Kind of their own animal. I've seen them written exceptionally inexpensively and also the opposite.

We haven't even started discussing prop strikes, hail, and hangar rash. Personal piston aircraft insurance has historically been a loss leader for many aviation insurance underwriters. Right now I know a few companies are actually profitable with it. If you're skilled at underwriting pro flown, Part 91 turbine aircraft...that's where the profit is. The airlines and insurance companies have been trading dollars back and forth for over a decade. The insurance companies are just glad they haven't taken a real crash with multiple fatalities in quite some time.

Nothing to worry about as this isn't presently a legal requirement to accomplish.

Only "I forgot" or "bad maintenance" included in those wild, yet educated guesses.

I would guess I insure somewhere between 200 and 240 Mooneys and I bet I get 2-3 gear ups per year. And I have strong reason to believe my loss ratio is better than most brokers.