PTK

Quote: jlunseth There are some letters and piece in the recent Aviation Consumer about the GTN's. Apparently they are not flying off the shelf, too costly and not enough of an improvement from the GNS's. Also, there was a letter stating that, at least in a composite aircraft, the STC for the 650 did not permit the 650 to be used as primary nav., there needs to be another box in the plane. The 750 is apparently the solution. Not clear from the letter whether it was GPS redundancy, or the need for an MFD display of some kind that cause the STC issue.

Quote: flyboy0681 Well, yea I knew all that, I just thought that you were able to hide the transponder and audio panel on the actual display. So is the transponder/audio display full time or can you also display navigation information in the same space?

A GTN 750 is not going to improve the mission profile over a G530 equipped plane. But the equivalent cost of the GTN 750 will give you over 3000 gallons of AVGAS or 50 tank top off. Either you fly 300 hours with the old G530 or play with the GTN 750 in your hangar, your choice Yes, but for us guys who never had a 430 or 530, and I personaly never wanted them because they have too many pushbuttons and knobs, the GTN 750 is a justifiable upgrade to GPS NAV COMM. Realize, Jose' that I installed a GTN750 plus a GMA35 plus a GTX33 for the same if not less than what a 530 (I said 530 not 530W) cost to install when IT first came out!!

If you saw the GTN video on the GTN you'll know what I mean.

Allsmiles Either hold the home button a couple seconds or press back button all the way back to where you were. If you were on the main menu you press the map button. I guess I misunderstood your original posting. What did you mean when you said " The audio panel and transponder are there when I need them and hide when I don't."? What are you hiding? What I meant is the audio panel and transponder physical boxes are hidden remotely and don't take up panel space. When I need to access them there are screen buttons at the top of the display to access them and control them, ie change a squawk code or switch comms, navs etc. Then they hide again. So they are there when I need to control their functionality but do not take up permanment panel space.

Allsmiles, in your configuration of Xponder and Audio panel, how do you bring up the default navigation display? Just curious since this isn't covered in the manual or the simulator. Either hold the home button a couple seconds or press back button all the way back to where you were. If you were on the main menu you press the map button.

PK- Just like jetdriven mentions- the AOA at which airflow seperates from the wing( a stall occurs) is always the same. So if you're in a loaded up turn with your gear down at max gross weight, you'll stall at the same AOA as a min weight power off stall. Same holds for accelerated stalls..... By having an AOA indicator you're not only giving yourself a constant on-speed AOA for the approach, no matter what your weight... you'll also know exactly at which point your aircraft will stall, no matter what condition you're in (turn, loaded up, light weight, straight in, etc, etc). If you want safety... an AOA gauge is worth more than an aspen upgrade IMHO... it gives you a piece of the puzzle you don't already have, and simplifies any approach by giving the pilot only 2 numbers to remember- what is your critical AOA where you'll stall and what AOA to use for the approach (crtical plus a buffer). Like I said- I'm partial to AOA, as that's what we use for our carrier traps in the Navy.... Meatball, Lineup, AOA... Meatball, Lineup, AOA... Thank you for the explanation Job. I see it now. With an AOA indicator you don't care about anything else, It makes it simpler. Which one do you have in your Mooney? I like the idea. And I'm no Aspen fan!! I'm waiting for a PFD only unit from Garmin. Rumor has it it's coming!!

Don't worry flyboy0681, I must be chopped liver too!! And I don't even like liver! The way I see it is that the 430/530 were DOS (does anybody remember DOS ??) and the GTN is the latest Windows OS. I find it very easy to use and ultra fast. Literaly everything seems to be at my fingertips. And I'm glad I went with the GMA35 and GTX33. The audio panel and transponder are there when I need them and hide when I don't. And 95% of the time I don't need them there taking up precious space. I'd rather look at the 750 bigger display! There is a rumor floating that Garmin is coming out with a PFD only version of the G500. Has anyone heard anything?? I'd love a sleek PFD from Garmin as there is no need for a G500 mfd portion anymore and I'm definitely not installing Aspen.

Hang a fan out the window??!!! Come on Jose' !!

Is it possible to install second alternator on a J?

The trilogy is expensive. I think it's ~12 or 13K for the unit. It is meant more for a bU to a glass panel. Yeah, my thinking was to wait for Garmin. For sure they have to come out with a PFD only version. Checkout my pics. They are not the best quality. I'd be sure to post better ones. It's sweet!!

Don't get me wrong! I have never been a fan of Aspen myself. This was just a thought that crossed my mind while looking for a BU electric ai. I would never want to go for Aspen as primary. This is why I said as BU and the Pilot Aspen. I personally love my existing King ai and HSI. They are flawless in operation and very classic in appearance. If I did ever take them out, and it's a big IF, it would be for a G500. Never an Aspen! I also agree we don't need GPSS at our speeds! But I don't think it was a smart idea!! So forget it!!

In the Performance section of the POH there is a nice little table called Stall Speed vs. Angle of Bank. As an example, I know that on, say, a base to final turn with 15 degrees flaps I can safely bank 45 degrees if I stay above 71 KIAS, I can bank 60 degrees if I stay above 84 KIAS. Mind you at GROSS WEIGHT. For straight in we have our airspeed indicator. Bottom of the white arc, 55 KIAS in my case, being the Max weight stall speed in landing config and the bottom of the green arc, 63 KIAS, stall speed no flaps. Our airspeed indicator IS our AOA indicator! What more AOA indicators do we need?

Current Panel: GTN 750, GMA 35, GTX 33, KX 165, KCS 55A Compass system with vaccum KFC 150 Autopilot. Would it be smart or dumb to install an Aspen Pilot on the right side configured to play backup role? BU AI and utilize its Air Data Computer feed to the GTN and its GPSS to the autopilot? Down the road if and only if my King AI decides to go I upgrade the pilot to the pro and move it over to my side. Thie cost for GPSS is about 3K and the same for an ADC. 6K is the cost of an Aspen Pilot. Any input?

If you PM me I'll tell you more info on what I paid and where.

Quote Danb35 Allsmiles, by most accounts, you're lucky to see half of your avionics upgrade dollars back in resale value. To look at a very common (until a few months ago) upgrade, consider the Garmin 430W. Vref indicates that it adds $5k to the value of a '67 F; Jimmy Garrison's article in last month's MAPA Log suggests $7500. I may well have overpaid to have mine installed, but I paid just under twice Jimmy's estimate, and I suspect he's being optimistic. Sure, you're going to get something back for your upgrades, but I don't think it's reasonable at all to expect you'll get 75+% of your cost back in resale. Of course, you're (presumably) getting those upgrades because you want to use them for whatever reason, not just for the sake of bumping up the value of the plane... Danb35 this is exactly my point. What you recoupe back in terms of value directly depends on what you put out for the upgrade. If you paid the insane 30K for a GTN 750, GMA 35 and GTX 33 (as an example because this equipment I'm familiar with because I just had it done) then no you will not get nearly as much back. If you paid normal costs you will get more value back. What I was saying to Michael is simply shop around. You will be surprised that you don't have to settle for something you may not want. The best deals need to be researched. Everyone assumes the costs advertised around by "bigger" national avionics shops are the norm. They are NOT folks!! The less you pay for an upgrade the more you'll recoup at resale. Does this make sense?

Michael, I think you are making some assumptions that I probably wouldn't have made or at least thought things differently. Of course please forgive me because I don't know your situation or your airplane. You are assuming that the cost of the upgrade is money you will never see again. If you analyze an avionics upgrade very carefully I think you will recoupe a very large portion if not all of the cost when you sell the airplane. By carefully I mean look at the equipment you have and judiciously only add what you really need. For example I don't agree when people jump on the bandwagon that happens to be passing by at any given point in time and go crazy taking out perfectly good equipment because someone sold them on some glass. You need to control your upgrade and don't relinquish this control to some "expert". Also carefully analyzing and actually shopping around for installations. I can tell you that national avionics shops that advertise themselves as the prime dealers for Garmin, for example, are WAY OVERPRICED. You can do A LOT better if you search. So by installing only what you need and shopping around you can have your avionics, college for your daughter and recoupe the cost when you sell. If you don't sell you will enjoy it for a long time. I did an upgrade very recently to a GTN750, GMA35 and GTX33. I took out KNS80, ADF and some other things. I sold the ADF before I even picked up the airplane! Cleaned up panel very nicely and did not break the bank.

Quote Fantom Ummmm....when things go to poop, GPS service is turned off and VOR's are gone, you may miss that good ol' reliable and simple radio beacon. YMMV. Yeah, I still have a battery operated all transistor AM radio from when I was in sixth grade. I kept it in case "things went to poop" and I need to listen to oldies music on AM!

(Unable to capture quote for some reason) I agree. Digital is good technology maybe for moving maps and that sort of thing but NOT in tachs where relative needle position can be scanned at a glance. I'm keeping my beautiful and classic OEM tach! Same thing applies to mp, as, altimeter and HSI. I'm also keeping my King HSI. It's flawless and a Mooney is just not the same without it. Did anybody ever notice the sales pitch avionics "experts" use? "...and you can sell your KCS-55A compass system for x thousands of dollars!" They use the inherent value in this equipment to offset and sell you, inferior imho, glass! If there is such value in "old" equipment such as these, AND, believe me, THERE IS, then why take them out? Also they require you to keep "old" "steam" gauges as bakups! Heck if it's good enough to HAVE to keep it then JUST KEEP IT!!

Quote: ElectronicsInt Mag Failure Alert If a mag fails during your flight, the R-1 will alert you by intermittently cycling through the LED's several times as you make your approach to land. Several pilots have mentioned to our support staff that this "cycling" has caught a failed mag while in flight. As an added benefit the R-1 averages over $160.00 less than the competitors sales price. Matt

Quote: FlyDave I had an ADF in my Cherokee and never did a single NDB approach with it - even with the NDB approach at my home field. Through 3 different instrument instructors, none of them thought it was important to learn or practice ADF approaches. I have an ADF in my mooney (King KR 87) but I'm thinking of taking it out. I also have a 430, KX-155 and KN-64 DME. My question to the group is: If you have an ADF in your panel (I really don't think anyone would be installing one at this point) would you opt to keep it or remove it to make room for more modern avionics? Thanks,

Hey Jose', good practical advice based or experience! Is there a part no you have for speed brake switch?

I have the cluster switch on the yoke consisting of the ap disconnect switch the cws switch, and the manual/electric trim split switch. I need to replace the split switch. The Honeywell part no. I have is 200-02960-000. I also have speedbrakes on the airplane with their own switch on the panel. Question I have is this. Since I have to replace the split switch should I also put the speed brake switch on the yoke? This would be an opportune time it seems. If so do I need the entire cluster replaced base and all the rest or will the speedbrake switch firt on my existing base. There is nothing wrong with the rest. Only the split switch needs to be replaced. Any part numbers would be appreciated. Thanks!!

When you buy your J you are going to own the legend. The fastest and most efficient GA aircraft. One piece of advice: DON'T RUSH. Look at A LOT of airplanes and look for reasons NOT to buy one or another that you think you like. Be objective and don't let emotion rush you and cloud your decision making. Then and only then are you going to recognize and spot the right one.

Congratulations Parker! Wish you lots of luck and happy flying with your beautiful Mooney!