A64Pilot

Two things, OK maybe three Your first sentence the drawing has to be owner produced and the drawing has to precede the part, in other words the part has to be made to the drawings specs, not the other way around, and by the producer sending you a drawing that’s complete clearly is not an owner designed or produced part, you signing it doesn’t make it your design Your second sentence, your absolutely correct, you just stated why this is not an owner produced part, no I’m not saying it would be legal, I’m saying if you choose to go ahead and purchase these parts and claim that you designed the part, at least have an original drawing. ‘None of you is pretending to actually participate in the manufacture of this part, yet you choose to act as though it’s an owner produced part. Your third statement having a lawyer draft a letter that you sign doesn’t make it an owner produced part either. ‘There are five ways it can be a owner produced part and none of them are sign a form letter or a supplied drawing. You guys are wanting your cake and eating it too, none of you have answered why your won’t make the logbook entry that you produced the part I’m not going to convince any of you. that’s obvious, but I do believe many who are not responding may be giving it consideration. ‘All of our insurence policies I’m sure require that the aircraft be maintained in an airworthy standard, it may behoove you to ensure that they are. For those that consider PMA and TSO etc to be nonsense, there is a category of aircraft just for you, and many of them are actually pretty good aircraft, you should should sell your Certified Aircraft and build one of them, then you don’t have to worry about picky IA’s and A&P’s anymore and you can choose the parts you like

It’s a Gann performance overhaul, approx 400 hours and maybe 6 years. Why?

Similar but maybe not the same as he says his voltage is stable, which isn’t possible if the amperage is swinging, like that, so if his voltage is stable ,then it’s an indicator issue in my opinion. Here is mine yesterday, it comes and goes, I’m pretty much most likely down to the pins in the cannon plug or the VR. Just really don’t want to spend $500 on a VR and it not fixit if I can help it. Especially when every trouble shooting guide I can find says it a power supply problem to the VR B3417D94-F093-4BE8-A13E-75FFDB2D0247.MOV

Any good mechanic is going to want to see “certs”, you know something like a yellow tag, especially for a part a owner supplies, and even then the logbook entry will usually state, “installed owner supplied xxx” The yellow tag ensures the airworthiness of a part, that’s why most of us have a folder full of them or a bunch of them stapled in the logbook. ‘At the repair station I kept a file for each aircraft, and copied logbook entries work orders and yellow tags etc, made the FAA inspector happy, and covered the Companies behind. By making that entry, you supply the “certs” Why don’t you want to make the entry?

I don’t know what it’s called but you guys are trying to convince yourselves of something that isn’t true. ‘You have to provide the design, the producer sending you a design for you to send back to them where you fill in your tail number is not providing a design, plus the part is made AFTER the design is received, and to the drawing, not before. This producer is clearly manufacturing batches of parts that are stocked and ready to be shipped, or they certainly are holding themselves out to be. ‘I gave you guys a way out, it’s in the link I posted. Basically someone is going to have to clam it’s an owner produced part and put that in the logbook, which you are allowed to do, and in fact are probably required to do. You make that entry that’s in the article, that was written by a FSDO inspector, and that relieves an A&P from having to determine the source of the part, from that point on his liability is determining the airworthiness of the part and installing them correctly. But that would be true for any part, the biscuits from Spruce too. ‘If you want to use these parts, follow the instructions in that article. I wouldn't save any drawings either as I don’t see where that’s required and it would tough for me to try to prove that I produced that drawing, if some of you have the software and computer skills, then maybe copy it. But I woudn’t use the one sent by the producer, odds are pretty good if the FAA were ever to ask questions that they have seen it before, 99 times out of 100 they are responding to some kind of complaint, it’s very rare that they go looking, someone almost always tips them off. Often it’s the manufacturer of a PMA part, so the guy who makes the $100+ ones that Spruce sells sees a drop in shipments, hears about this guy i’m South Africa and reports him via the FAA’s Suspected Unapproved Parts program,if they make enough noise the FAA has to investigate, often an AD is eventually issued, maybe. ‘The Powerplant DER we used to use compared the FAA to a bear in the woods, you walk by the woods day after day all the time knowing there is a bear in the woods, but nothing happens. Then one day for seemingly no apparent reason the bear comes charging out of the woods and your running for your life, wondering why? https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/

Don’t Bonanza’s have some kind of wind spar inspection now? i don’t know the scope or frequency, but think there is one.

I’ve done that and was surprised at how little the oil flow there is. There is a theory, probably a good one too that low oil flow causes wear of the exhaust valves for lack of cooling and lubrication. Bad lifter you should be able to find with a big screwdriver. For those that haven’t tried it, place the tip on the engine and the plastic handle in your ear, it will conduct the sound through the screwdriver, of course a mechanic stethoscope is probably better, never had one myself.

Actually, your not required to comply with the SB, if you want to play that game, don’t do any of it, keep the old main bearings too. I’m all about saving a nickel, but by not replacing bearings and rod bolts etc when your there, is how you end up with a thrown rod etc. But I’m not posting this stuff for those that believe they know more than professionals that have spent most of their adult life in aircraft maintenance. ‘I’m posting it for the guy with the cracked case that started this thread and others that may be here one day, if you fly long enough odds are you will, maybe not a cracked case but something will have you splitting them, prop strike, bad cam etc. To not change bearings when your there and start with a new bottom end makes about as much sense as not repacking bearings when you change a tire. But as a Professional, not complying with that SB in its entirety is not only wrong, it’s cheating the customer, but it’s also crazy from a legal standpoint. Even ten years down the road let that engine have a failure like the 231 in Dawson Ga just did, and if that SB wasn’t complied with, and especially if there was a fatality or serious injury any slick Lawyer prints it out with all that RED printing and shows it to a jury, and your done, you have lost everything, and the Lawyer gets a down payment on a new Porsche and moves to the next personal injury case. So anyone you pay to R&R a case who doesn’t comply with that SB, because you know even though it says mandatory in big red letters, you don’t have to, not for part 91, isn’t a professional, same guy I guess that you people claim that will sign off an annual for a case of beer. For you guys that don’t TBO, replacing bearings on a mid time engine when it’s apart is how you get one to go way past overhaul, because ensuring the crank is within limits (a mid time Lycoming crank will be ) and installing new bearings is pretty much a new bottom end. If the crank is worn behind limits do you really want to fly it IFR over mountains or at night? Same for the cam and lifters. your not going to inspect for wear and catch the beginnings of a failing camshaft BEFORE it fills the engine with metal? This is your one chance to closely inspect everything while it’s laying there on the table out in plain sight, and to replace bearings etc that by design wear and start over with an engine that will likely go for many more years trouble free. ‘There are essentially three kinds of maintenance : scheduled, preventative and on condition. On condition is the guy who has a leaking water pump on his truck who drains the coolant, changes the pump and puts the old coolant back in and dives away thinking of how much money he saved, and a month later blows a radiator hose, or the thermostat sticks and overheats the engine and warps a head etc. ‘The Preventative maintenance guy, flushes the system to start with, and puts on new hoses, new thermostat, belts and coolant and doesn’t have another cooling issue for years, maybe decades, because he does preventative maintenance and changes coolant every few years, the on condition guy says leave it alone it’s working. You the owner gets to pick the level of maintenance performed, remember that when your IFR at night or flying the family to the Bahamas for a vacation.

There is also this Lycoming SB which I woud never not comply with, because doing so negatively impacts safety, and it requires disassembly of the connecting rods, removal from the crank, which you said you didn’t have done. https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Mandatory Parts Replacement at Overhaul and During Repair or Maintenance.pdf A copy of the last sentence of that SB “Carry out the dimensional inspections in accordance with measurements and tolerances as listed in “Table of Limits” (SSP­1776) for all parts approved for use.” ssp1776 https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/SSP-1776-5 Table of Limits - Complete.pdf

A mechanic has to determine the airworthiness of the parts they install, often that's paperwork, quite often it’s a visual inspection, and quite often it means measuring if that’s what it takes. It goes like this, you see a part that looks worn, how do you tell if it’s within limits? You measure it.

You should be able to verify the master switch and the voltage regulator etc by measuring the voltage at the field terminal on the alternator itself. ‘If you have a good steady field voltage with the engine running, then the master switch and VR etc and all wiring and connections are doing their thing, if it’s fluctuating, then you have a problem. I connected a long wire with a alligator clip and ran it back through the little window on the pilots side, so no body was up there near the prop.

I’ve removed and cleaned all the connectors on the alternator, and the battery too of course, everything but the field CB, as it appears to be a nightmare to get to. ‘I assume you get to it by removing the glare shield, but I haven’t looked to see what kind of job that will be either ‘I believe the alt was replaced when the engine was overhauled, which was about 400 hours ago, and I think I’ve determined it to be good.

An IA won’t or wouldn’t get involved except during the Annual, unless the A&P is also an IA. Read the article I linked to, as the owner / producer you need to make that write up in the logbook that is in the article. Again with the opinion, but in my opinion as an A&P with that logbook entry it’s not my job to determine if you really produced the part or not, your signing a legal document that you did, and in my opinion at that point my job is to ensure the airworthiness of the part, not it’s origin. ‘You covered the origin question with the logbook entry. ‘Just don’t come to me with a box of donuts telling me there is no paper work because you made them yourself. I can’t “buy off” the parts that way.

This explains a owner produced part pretty well.’ https://www.aviationpros.com/home/article/10387511/owner-produced-parts-how-they-affect-maintenance There is no way your making something already manufactured, in serial production and stocked for sale, an owner produced part. An owner produced part is forbidden to be sold, and these clearly are for sale. Maybe you could by taking a standard part or even a different aircraft part and having it modified. ‘You guys can of course do as you please, but I wouldn't try calling this an owner produced part, I’d try something else. Now in my opinion , not that my opinion means anything, but I bet an FAA inspector so long as you didn’t get all know it all on him, would be far more likely to look the other way on the Mite parts. ‘Why? because the factory or any other FAA approved part simply doesn’t exist, you have no other choice, other than trying to cook some donuts up in your kitchen, the safest thing is the South African parts. On the Klixon CB’s that didn’t have certs, I’d use them, I’d call them standard parts as I believe they are. Unless Mooney’s Klixon CB’s we’re built to a different spec than the standard ones,which surely they weren’t, but if they were then that would make them non standard

Buying fuel and lunch doesn’t even come close to paying for the airplane, FAA isn’t going to give you any grief for that. ‘You get into trouble by flying a plane load of people every Friday and return every Sunday down to Biloxi for example, and say they are sharing expenses. I know someone that does that in a Baron, FAA sort of jokingly calls them 134 & 1/2 operations, but unless there is a complaint they rarely pursue them. But if you add up the ownership expenses of owning an airplane fuel and lunch most likely fall below 50% , and that’s pretty easy to defend as sharing expenses. However there was this case maybe 15 years or so ago where someone accepted like $20 for a Stearman ride, hit wires, pax died and he ended up in prison, based largely on accepting the $20. Pax wanted to help pay the gas bill. ‘Anyone remember that? Found it, but it wasn’t $20 it was $8 and there is more to the story, as one charge gave precedence to others https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2008/july/01/after-the-accident

There have always been transportation choices for the Uber wealthy, Check what a Pan Am clipper ticket cost, or a Zeppelin. By comparison the Concorde was a bargain. There certainly won’t be SST for the masses in my lifetime or my children I don’t believe, but I am sort of surprised it’s not already here for the Billionaires of the world. ‘The energy expenditure to go that fast is just enormous.

It’s been about 15 years ago at Sun-N-Fun, I saw a 172 taxing at pretty high power in some of the rough stuff, dropped the nose gear into some kind of hole and dirt flew everywhere.engine of course came to a sudden stop. ‘Well I started to walk over to give him the bad news and ask if there was anything I could do, but before I got there five or six helpers showed up, pushed it out of the hole, he cranked it up and off he went. ‘I figured it was a rental

Are most gear ups from forgetting to put them down? If so then how frequently are they mechanical failure as in won’t go down? I assume some collapses are due to hard landings etc? Trying to get a sense of how often it’s a broken airplane as opposed to pilot error. ‘Coming from a C-210 as my last complex airplane, it was often the airplanes fault, at least to some extent.

Makes sense, I may quit for the day, but just went out and ran it up with a wire connected directly to the field terminal on the Alt to measure voltage, after startup when it was fluctuating, voltage was so whacked out the Fluke couldn’t even measure it, actually it measured a widely variable AC current, later after it settled down it measured a steady DC voltage that would decrease with RPM and increase with load (pitot heat). Which is about what I’d expect and voltage was roughly about 5 VDC. So hopefully that’s telling me that it’s not the alt, it’s either the VR of I’m feeding the VR unstable power. Just about every trouble shooting tree I’ve read goes there, high resistance connection to the VR and the VR getting unstable voltsge. ‘I’ll measure voltage at the cannon plug tomorrow and I may jumper the field CB by taking current from the cigar lighter and inputting it into the spade connector past the Master switch. I’m pretty confident that it’s not the Master so I may not bypass it.

This is my VR https://baspartsales.com/vr415f-alt-880016-501-mooney-m20j-lamar-voltage-regulator-volts-14/

OK figured the silver box was a noise filter, thanks I found the VR, actually pretty easy to get to, it’s a gold colored box but pretty sure it is not a Zeftronics or not a Zef branded box anyway. It’s mounted under a shelf right beside of the nose wheel well on the pax side. black plastic cannon plug, disconnected and cleaned the contacts, no effect. four wires, red, black etc. Identical female cannon plug unused right beside of it, three wires to it, have no idea what it’s for. ‘So I’m real sure the Master switch side of the house isn’t it, unless somehow there is a bad female spade connector, never seen that, it’s possible but unlikely? I’ve disconnected and cleaned all connections to the alternator, all terminals appear good and secure. It could be i guess an alt field CB, but voltage at the master matched bus voltage, so that ought to rule that out. Off to do some reading at the Zef site, been several years, can’t hurt.

So what your saying I believe is that the alt field CB is not the alt field wire, but is really the VR power supply? Power from master goes through the alt field CB to power the VR?

Running the field wire through the Master sort of makes sense to me. The reason is, if I understand an alternator, disconnecting the battery from a running alternator can cause damage because suddenly the load is removed, and an alternator may could continue to be excited by its own output I guess, of course an alternator unlike a generator uses an electromagnet to form the magnetic field so that you can generate electricity, so it has to have a source of electricity in order to make electricity, but once going can it use the power it’s making to keep the magnetic field alive? I assume it could, if it could then the only way to kill it is to remove that field current, so killing the field current the instant the battery is disconnected seems smart. But, it appears my Master just supplies power to the VR, so how is that logical? My field wire in the engine compt is also shielded, so I assume it is all the way to the VR, but haven’t looked yet. ‘So why is the field wire shielded?

I can sort of confirm that, on run up a little while ago the voltage at the switch followed bus voltage exactly, so it’s not field voltage. I don’t understand the logic of a DPDT switch though for a master with one half of the switch for VR power. Anytime the Master is on, the VR receives power, any time the switch is off, it doesn’t, you cannot operate one half of the switch. So why not connect the VR directly to the bus? Nothing would change, anytime the Master is on, it’s powered, any time it’s off, it’s not, same function. VR is voltage regulator

Yes, but a amp meter is actually a volt meter, one that measures tiny voltage changes across a very slight known resistance, so it’s normal to see voltage fluctuations in a amp meter. ‘Plus as voltage changes the amps into and out of a battery will change, because voltage is the “pressure” that pushes current into a battery. ‘Our Amp meters don’t measure load or I don’t believe they do, they only measure current into and from the battery. this is why they read zero on a fully charged battery and a electrical system under a steady load. To measure load, you need a shunt connected to the alternator output.